Sanitation.

[Northern Neil]

I was thinking more in terms of throwing an old pot away or wood, leather, marble chips, etc. Stuff like that.

Having now read this thread properly, here is another bit of information. In Rome there is a place called Monte Testaccio. It is an artificial hill, about 120 feet in height, and it is made up entirely of discarded amphorae numbering in the tens of millions. It was in use from about 150BC to AD 250. It is now a park on the right bank of the Tiber, to the south of the Circus Maximus. Google Earth shows it perfectly.

[Maladict]

I was thinking more in terms of throwing an old pot away or wood, leather, marble chips, etc. Stuff like that.

Having now read this thread properly, here is another bit of information. In Rome there is a place called Monte Testaccio. It is an artificial hill, about 120 feet in height, and it is made up entirely of discarded amphorae numbering in the tens of millions. It was in use from about 150BC to AD 250. It is now a park on the right bank of the Tiber, to the south of the Circus Maximus. Google Earth shows it perfectly.

 

Yes, but now you're talking industrial refuse. Monte Testaccio was next to Rome's river port, where the ships from Ostia would dock. If some Roman threw a pot out the window of his house it probably wouldn't end up there.

[Andrew Dalby]

I thought that those 'stepping stones' were there to prevent carriages and horse riders from racing down the vias.?

We Brits call them 'sleeping policemen'. Do you call them that too? I must say it never occurred to me that the Romans invented them. I, like others, thought those big paving-stones were purely to serve as stepping stones during heavy rain -- but I quite agree that they would also have the effect you mention. I don't remember any source hinting at chariot races in city streets ... perhaps this is why!

[caldrail]

I thought that those 'stepping stones' were there to prevent carriages and horse riders from racing down the vias.?

We Brits call them 'sleeping policemen'. Do you call them that too? I must say it never occurred to me that the Romans invented them. I, like others, thought those big paving-stones were purely to serve as stepping stones during heavy rain -- but I quite agree that they would also have the effect you mention. I don't remember any source hinting at chariot races in city streets ... perhaps this is why!

 

I disagree. Given the pedestrian and crowded nature of roman settlements it would have been difficult if not impossible to reach any reasonable speed along a street. Although these stones would indeed inhibit speed so would everyone else, thus they weren't really needed. If the ancient sources had mentioned say... young men racing chariots around town and being frowned upon by their elders, I could accept it. Mind you, given the activities of youths in powerful cars these days one wonders if the romans did indeed have trouble with risk-taking young men of wealthy families!

[DecimusCaesar]

I disagree. Given the pedestrian and crowded nature of roman settlements it would have been difficult if not impossible to reach any reasonable speed along a street. Although these stones would indeed inhibit speed so would everyone else, thus they weren't really needed. If the ancient sources had mentioned say... young men racing chariots around town and being frowned upon by their elders, I could accept it. Mind you, given the activities of youths in powerful cars these days one wonders if the romans did indeed have trouble with risk-taking young men of wealthy families!

 

According to Connolly in 'Pompeii': "Large stepping stones were set in the roads at intervals so that people could cross without getting dirty". He also mentions how dirty the streets would have been as people hurled their rubbish into the gutters that flanked thr roads.

 

Looking at the photographs displayed by GPM, you can clearly see the ruts left in the road by the passing vehicles. The dents were at their largest at the base of the stepping stone where the wheels of the vehicle have crushed the pavement stones.

[Gaius Octavius]

I thought that those 'stepping stones' were there to prevent carriages and horse riders from racing down the vias.?

We Brits call them 'sleeping policemen'. Do you call them that too? I must say it never occurred to me that the Romans invented them. I, like others, thought those big paving-stones were purely to serve as stepping stones during heavy rain -- but I quite agree that they would also have the effect you mention. I don't remember any source hinting at chariot races in city streets ... perhaps this is why!

 

We have a roll of asphalt over the road (in shopping centers), called speed bumps. Go over one of those babies at 30mph, and you then can put the chariot back together from scratch.

Edited April 3, 2007 by Gaius Octavius

[caldrail]

Given that the stones are damaged by wheeled vehicles, I think we can safely assume that the vehicles were damaged even more by the stones. I agree with connolly - those stones were for keeping you clean and dry from pavement to pavement. The impression we get from the sun-bleached ruins and tv/film is nothing like the scene you would have witnessed back then. The streets were mucky with dirt and refuse. Wealthy people might carry scented objects close to the nose to relieve the stench. We are after all talking about a civilisation, like many that followed including our own, that threw its waste and spoil into the street.

[Gaius Octavius]

Given that the stones are damaged by wheeled vehicles, I think we can safely assume that the vehicles were damaged even more by the stones. I agree with connolly - those stones were for keeping you clean and dry from pavement to pavement. The impression we get from the sun-bleached ruins and tv/film is nothing like the scene you would have witnessed back then. The streets were mucky with dirt and refuse. Wealthy people might carry scented objects close to the nose to relieve the stench. We are after all talking about a civilisation, like many that followed including our own, that threw its waste and spoil into the street.

 

For some reason, I don't want to agree with you, but you may be correct nonetheless. First, I can't see rain run off being that great of a problem. It would only pile up refuse at the 'dam' and the water would run off onto the sidewalks and into the buildings. Second, if refuse was a problem, it would also be on the sidewalks unless people had a good aim or aimed at all.

[Pantagathus]

Second, if refuse was a problem, it would also be on the sidewalks unless people had a good aim or aimed at all.

I tend to argee with Gaius in that I think we tend to overly generalize the sanataion conditions across the board in various locals throughout the span of the ancient world.

 

The evidence seems to indicate that in Rome proper for most of it's history, sanitation was of course a high priority. Not remembering the exact reference but Strabo discusses it in length when talking about Rome.

 

Rome undoubtably had street cleaners to suppliment it's celebrated sewer system. I don't know the Latin word is but a verb in Greek for cleaning away refuse is anakatharsis. It had to be quite similar to what Appian describes in his treatment of the 3rd Punic War (because Carthage's housing blocks were laid out with spillways for refuse to be cleaned out by a public service):

 

"The street cleaners, who were removing the rubbish with axes, mattocks, and forks, and making the roads passable..."

 

But, back to Gaius' original question:

I was thinking more in terms of throwing an old pot away or wood, leather, marble chips, etc. Stuff like that.

If you dig into it, you find it quite evident that the Romans used that kind of refuse extrensively to level ground during building/engineering projects. Many archaeology sites have been preserved because the Romans covered old thing over with such rubble!

[Pertinax]

A small piece of the York system is visible in the undercroft of the Minster. The change in site levels has disguised the original construction plan.Indeed site level change in the Roman epoch alone was considerable.

[caldrail]

Second, if refuse was a problem, it would also be on the sidewalks unless people had a good aim or aimed at all.

 

The real problem with such refuse would be in the smaller side streets that wouldn't have the luxury of sidewalks. Having said that, where sidewalks are in evidence then the majority of spoil might still hit the street. Why? because if someone wants to dispose of it they have basically two methods of putting it out the window. The first is simply to tilt the container, so it falls directly below. This would soil the sidewalk for sure but then that might actually be seen as an antisocial way of disposing of rubbish. Possibly more likely is that the person would 'throw' the stuff out with a flick of the arm. In that way, the sidewalk is spared and the spoil hits the street, at least usually, though it might depend on how high the window is.