A Tribune and his cohort

[Furt]

In "Under the Eagle" (p76), the Tribune Vitellius takes commands of a cohort and marches on a mission to a local village. This inspired a few questions: -

 

1) Would a Tribune travel with a retinue (personal slaves, military staff, bodyguards)?

 

2) Would a lone cohort travel more than a days march from their legion and if so how would it camp fortified or unfortified?

 

3) Do you believe cohorts undertook such missions without the direct suppoprt of their legion?

[roman wargamer]

In "Under the Eagle" (p76),

the Tribune Vitellius takes commands of a cohort and marches on a mission to a local village.

in time of war...

in my in-depth guesswork a cohort have an average of 16 infantry centurion line and an equites turmae.

 

1) Would a Tribune travel with a retinue (personal slaves, military staff, bodyguards)?

this could settle the matter.

the cohort equites turmae is under his direct commands and the cohort signeferi centuria.

 

2) Would a lone cohort travel more than a days march from their legion and

if so how would it camp fortified or unfortified?

in time of war...NO!, they must return at base camp before night fall, even if on a mission.

in time of peace... they travel by village to village within a day march, the settlement will

be their safety haven or protection against surprise attack.

 

3) Do you believe cohorts undertook such missions without the direct suppoprt of their legion?

yes!

a legiones cohortia is the modern day equivalent of military battalion,

so it is almost a self contained unit that everything it needs is almost their for the war and mission.

[Furt]

in time of war...

in my in-depth guesswork a cohort have an average of 16 infantry centurion line and an equites turmae.

 

Sorry - can you explain the infantry part a bit clearer (16 infantry centurion line) and the term signeferi centuria. I know a turmae is a small cavalry unit and part of an alae.

Edited March 6, 2007 by Furt

[caldrail]

2) Would a lone cohort travel more than a days march from their legion and

if so how would it camp fortified or unfortified?

in time of war...NO!, they must return at base camp before night fall, even if on a mission.

in time of peace... they travel by village to village within a day march, the settlement will

be their safety haven or protection against surprise attack.

 

3) Do you believe cohorts undertook such missions without the direct suppoprt of their legion?

yes!

a legiones cohortia is the modern day equivalent of military battalion,

so it is almost a self contained unit that everything it needs is almost their for the war and mission.

 

Hung by your own petard! There is a difference between the permanent or semi-permanent legionary fort, and a marching fort built by a unit en-route. The cohort is linked by organisation to its parent legion, and although it may conduct missions or postings as a seperate unit, it does not become entirely autonomous. As for marching, cohorts did not rely on travelling from settlement to settlement. They couldn't. The roman army often operated in regions where suitable settlements were not available. Thats the rationale for the marching camp. At the end of the days march, the cohort must encamp and make some effort to protect themselves with a ditch and palisade. This was standard roman practice. It gave the men some measure of security, and its notable that one military punishment required that guilty soldiers sleep outside the camp. It also had a psychological advantage in that it planted a roman flag inside hostile territory, saying to all observers that the romans are here and they're staying. Even if the camp was for one night, the statement was made. Every week, a unit was expected to conduct a route march and that involved an overnight camp made in this way. The legion as a whole wouldn't have done this because they needed to perform a whole range of local duties, so individual cohorts would therefore conduct these marches and encampments as a matter of course. It does bring up the question of how legions or their cohorts did this in desert regions where wood was not freely available, and settlements almost non-existent. There are plenty of stone roman castles left in isolated parts of north africa, so was the situation similar to hadrians wall, where units are posted along a chain of fortifications?

[roman wargamer]

and a marching fort built by a unit en-route

only the whole legio could build the standard camp because it needs a surrounding intervallum

and en route base camp was build only in one day.

 

from the inner base limit, their is an intervallum or empty space that runs a humdred meters towards

the four sides of the man made ramp of soil, protected by palisade and outside ditch.

 

As for marching, cohorts did not rely on travelling from settlement to settlement.

2) Would a lone cohort travel more than a days march from their legion and

if so how would it camp fortified or unfortified?

in time of war...NO!, they must return at base camp before night fall, even if on a mission.

in time of peace... they travel by village to village within a day march, the settlement will

be their safety haven or protection against surprise attack.

as i said...within a day march. not longer than that.

after the mission, they must return to the base camp for protection against night attack.

[caldrail]

No, we know that smaller units than legions built marching forts. I think you might be confusing those with the more impressive legionary forts which were built for long term occupation. Small stone forts often housed cohorts too, not the legion as a whole. Even watch towers were occupied for periods longer than a day.

[Furt]

I too thought it possible that a cohort would construct a small "marching fort" but believed such a fort would be small compared to a legion's encampment. Would the cohort carry enough standard equipment to construct a viable marching fort? How would it compare size wise?

[caldrail]

Much smaller and more basic, but generally of a similar format in layout. A simple ditch and palisade surrounding the camp and none too large, but enough for a modicum of prtection.

[roman wargamer]

Much smaller and more basic, but generally of a similar format in layout.

really, then let's see how it will be technically possible?

 

but enough for a modicum of protection.

so then, first let's ask, what is cohort we are talking about? how big is it?

 

from unrv military post of the legion: cohort have 480 fighting men

 

Cohorts: (cohort) included 6 centuriae or a total of 480 fighting men, not including officers.

divided into;

Contubernium: (tent group) consisted of 8 men.

Centuria: (century) was made up of 10 contubernium with a total of 80 men commanded by a centurion

 

then let's rounded the number into 500 fighting men for easy computation.

 

A simple ditch and palisade surrounding the camp and none too large,

 

if every man needs a 5 square meter of moving space,

then a cohort with 500 men will needs at around 25,000 square meter of space inside the inner camp.

 

then add the intervallum of 100 meters space of distance from inner camp into the rampart edge.

 

so one side of your "simple ditch and palisade surrounding the camp" will be 450 linear square meter long.

or 18,000 linear square meter long in four sides of the camp..

 

if we will take the standard ditch size of 2 square meter depth and 4 meter square width.

then the whole cohort will need to excavate 14,400 cubic meter of soil in a day.

 

or around 25 cubic meters of soil to excavate per man in a day.

 

is this your own "simple ditch and palisade surrounding the camp and none too large," likely possible

 

base on my experience; a man will barely exceeds 8 square cubic meter in 8 hours.

in force labor.

 

then it is your call to re-compute my number or the re-organization of the cohort.

 

it is technically and logistically impossible for every man to excavate 25 cu.m. in a day / or 5 hours.

 

 

forgive me if i made mistake in my written computation.

[roman wargamer]

in time of war...

in my in-depth guesswork a cohort have an average of 16 infantry centurion line and an equites turmae.

 

Sorry - can you explain the infantry part a bit clearer (16 infantry centurion line) and the term signeferi centuria. I know a turmae is a small cavalry unit and part of an alae.

a turmae have around 30 men of equites from legio for cohortes.

 

the cohortes have each own signiferi team, staff men, messenger and guards unit compose into centuria.

 

can you explain the infantry part a bit clearer (16 infantry centurion line)

an infantry line term to me, means; what unrv called the Centuria.

Centuria: (century) was made up of 10 contubernium with a total of 80 men commanded by a centurion.

 

but my formation and number was little bit different:

 

like the Contubernium: [ in unrv it is (tent group) consisted of 8 men]

 

a team of contubernia to me is like this, a 9 men team,

three men abreast in front, three men a the back, and three men in the rear

 

[]/.[]/.[]/.

[]/.[]/.[]/.

[]/.[]/.[]/.

 

i will pm you a more detailed one on this.

my apology on late reply, i run out of time the last time i visit the net.

[caldrail]

The exact same statistical arguement applies to the larger legionary encampment and therefore you have argued that they couldn't do that either - but we know they did - it really is just a question of scale.

 

Remember that we're not talking about a permanent fort capable of withstanding a siege. The surrounding ditch is just as useful for drainage as protection and the palisade not especially impressive. The whole point is that these camps were overnight accomodation only.

 

Besides the obvious advantages of a more secure nights sleep and psychological intrusion into enemy territory, the other reason why this camps were built at the end of a days march was to keep the men busy.

[roman wargamer]

The exact same statistical arguement applies to the larger legionary encampment...

wrong... cohortia is smaller compared to legio. so the distance will be shorter.

 

...and therefore you have argued that they couldn't do that either -

it is my stand that legio build their en route marching camp within that day, around 5/6 hours time.

 

i only dis-agree! that you claim a cohort built their own en route camp.

when my argument say's that cohort never go away from main legio more than a day's marching distance.

 

...but we know they did - it really is just a question of scale.

i agree... it is just a question how the Roman Legio do it.

 

Remember that we're not talking about a permanent fort capable of withstanding a siege.

did you know it?

when the Roman Legio travel away... at the end of the day's march... they build a camp...everyday.

then we have a different understanding? isn't it about the the cohors or legio camp?

a roman legio camp have an intervallum, and rampart with palisades and soil taken from the ditch.

 

The surrounding ditch is just as useful for drainage as protection and the palisade not especially impressive.

the ditch depth was around 2 meter plus the 2 meters rampart made from soil excavation and

around 4 meters wide.

 

The whole point is that these camps were overnight accomodation only.

it is not what i believe... it was designed to prevent the enemy any easy and successful night raid

and any enemy army deliberate attack to destroy the whole legio.

 

Spartacus have destroyed a legio in a night attack.

Edited March 13, 2007 by roman wargamer

[roman wargamer]

and a marching fort built by a unit en-route

only the whole legio could build the standard camp because it needs a surrounding intervallum

and en route base camp was build only in one day.

 

from the inner base limit, their is an intervallum or empty space that runs a humdred meters towards

the four sides of the man made ramp of soil, protected by palisade and outside ditch.

 

As for marching, cohorts did not rely on travelling from settlement to settlement.

2) Would a lone cohort travel more than a days march from their legion and

if so how would it camp fortified or unfortified?

in time of war...NO!, they must return at base camp before night fall, even if on a mission.

in time of peace... they travel by village to village within a day march, the settlement will

be their safety haven or protection against surprise attack.

as i said...within a day march. not longer than that.

after the mission, they must return to the base camp for protection against night attack.

my stand was "the settlement will be their safety haven"

 

as the following qouted passage will show, a detached unit or cohors of the legio stay's in... settlement:

 

"There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius,

a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment."

 

Acts 10:1 NKJV

 

and from the wording indicated of a real regular detach unit of Italian or Roman legio.

 

i am doing some recomputation of my Roman Legiones en-route marching camp.