the war of 1812

[M. Porcius Cato]

If not for the war of 1812, Andrew Jackson ('King Andrew I') would never have able to seize the party of Jefferson and turn it into the populist abomination that betrayed Native Americans, preserved slavery, energetically sought empire, ignored constitutional government, fostered cults of personality, and laid the groundwork for a corrupt political machine that brought economic chaos and civil war.

 

You won't find it in the Hermitage gift shop, but The Passion of Andrew Jackson is well worth a read.

[Gaius Octavius]

I know that this is off topic, but as an American, I can't help but complain that all three stanzas are not sung at public gatherings as I had to when in grammar school.

 

"Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,...."

 

------------------------

The Red Coats nevermore challenged us, lest we did as the Romans did in the First Punic War.

 

"54-40, or fight."

Edited March 6, 2007 by Gaius Octavius

[Pantagathus]

 

It was a very important war because if confirmed US Independence and established US Naval superiority

 

Not so sure about that US naval superiority. Royal Navy still ruled the waves for at least a century after that.

Not in the western hemishpere

[Septimus Flavius Galarius]

First off can someone tell me how to do quotes from other messages on here because that would be appreciatted. Pantagathus as far as telling me to drop it, i was making a point from Antiochus of Seleucia comment how the southern slave expansionists wanted to annex cuba and i mentioned how the south has never spoken for the entire United States and then i mentioned various modern people to support my claim, i wasn't trying to turn this into a big political argument, i was just trying to make a point. As far as the War of 1812 goes i think it was not as pointless as some thing. First off the British had no respect for the United States, its citizens, or its territory before the war. If they had they would not of impressed American sailors into the British navy, disrupted U.S. trade in europe, we were a neutral country during britains war with Napoleon. A perfect example of Britains lack of respect for the territory of the United States was the british not evacuating Fort Niagara until 1796, 13 years after the end of the War of Indepedence!! We also could relate more to the French, they aided us in the War of Indepedence, and the French Revolution was a popular uprising against a monarchy similiar to what happened in the American Colonies, and it was france that sold us the Louisiana Purchase, but that was more out of necessity than any nice deed by Napoleon. But by the end of the war the British respected the territory, citizens, and the right to exist of the United States, and not even a dead pig would cause the US and Britain to go to war again.

[Primus Pilus]

First off can someone tell me how to do quotes from other messages on here because that would be appreciatted.

 

Press the quote button.. or use BB Code... typing quote brackets around the text in your message...

[quote]I am quoting a message[/quote]

would look like this in the actual post...

I am quoting a message

[Gaius Octavius]

Or, just click on 'Reply' at the message you want to quote. It will pop up and you can edit it if you please.

Experiment, using 'Preview Post'.

 

[CiceroD]

Wow

 

I turn my back for a day and we get to the Spanish American War (sigh)

 

 

anyways wasn't the Campaign in the Phillipines the principal reason for our annexing Hawaii?

It sure made the Missionaries happy, but we primarily wanted Pearl Harbor, right?

 

Back to 1812 I would dispute that the British wouldve wanted to get back into the US (too much hassle)

they were sick of war anyways remember that this comes at the end of a long, long, struggle with Napoleon.

 

However I think that if the Battle of Lake Erie had gone differently the British wouldve absorbed the whole Great Lakes region.

[spittle]

I remember first reading of the Sack of Washington in 1812 and thinking what a tumultuous year that must have been for virtually every race from Russia to USA. So its not a 'forgotten war'. However, I was surprised to read of it as I had believed that hostilities between Britain and America had ended with the Revolutionary War, many years before. So, not forgotten but not considered as important as other conflicts for some reason.

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

i was making a point from Antiochus of Seleucia comment how the southern slave expansionists wanted to annex cuba and i mentioned how the south has never spoken for the entire United States

 

...You are right, the south didn't speak for the whole U.S., hence we never annexed it. They still wanted it, but democracy prevented it. If you want to argue, plz don't agree with me.

 

...And the sinking of a ship doesn't spark interest in a land mass' natural rescources and trading advantages.

 

----

War of 1812

 

The burning of the capital made citizens very angry and actually drove many to join the military to fight the brits off. Perhaps a seemingly sound move works against one?

[Septimus Flavius Galarius]

I remember first reading of the Sack of Washington in 1812 and thinking what a tumultuous year that must have been for virtually every race from Russia to USA

Actually Washington was burned in 1814.

..And the sinking of a ship doesn't spark interest in a land mass' natural rescources and trading advantages

No but it helps to have the population of your country for the war as well and thats what the Maine sinking did, turned the American people against Spain.

The burning of the capital made citizens very angry and actually drove many to join the military to fight the brits off. Perhaps a seemingly sound move works against one?

There was so much hatred on both sides for each other that sound judgments were not a priority. York and Newark in canada get burned, so the British burn Washington DC, Buffalo NY and Lewiston NY. Veteran British soldiers of the Penisular War against france were horriefied at how fiercious the American troops were fighting, especially at Lundys Lane,and the constant burning and looting. British admirals Cockburn and Cochrane particularly hated the Americans and it was Cockburn that personally had Washington burned.

[Pantagathus]

Pantagathus as far as telling me to drop it, i was making a point from Antiochus of Seleucia comment how the southern slave expansionists wanted to annex cuba and i mentioned how the south has never spoken for the entire United States and then i mentioned various modern people to support my claim, i wasn't trying to turn this into a big political argument,

Unfortunately SFG it would have become one.

 

You have a decent point that can be made (as you have) without dragging disreputable modern figures into the discussion.

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

..And the sinking of a ship doesn't spark interest in a land mass' natural rescources and trading advantages

No but it helps to have the population of your country for the war as well and thats what the Maine sinking did, turned the American people against Spain.

 

Thank you for reiterating what I've said twice.

[brotus maximus]

just out of curiosity wasnt it us canucks that pushed the americans back past the white house and also painted it a different color, i guess if you want to call that a win for you guys go for it but as far as i know that was a pretty weird win for you and all not bashing you guys at all but i am one of the canadians that thought we won that war( and i was slightly taken back by the remark of we would all be eating crumpets and drinking tea line just becuase we were part of the british monarchy doesnt mean that we were our own fighting force defending our newborn country( if u want a good example of the canadian fighting force then ww1 and ww2 are to multiple good examples of both as well as the beor war just to let you know

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

just out of curiosity wasnt it us canucks that pushed the americans back past the white house and also painted it a different color, i guess if you want to call that a win for you guys go for it but as far as i know that was a pretty weird win for you and all not bashing you guys at all but i am one of the canadians that thought we won that war( and i was slightly taken back by the remark of we would all be eating crumpets and drinking tea line just becuase we were part of the british monarchy doesnt mean that we were our own fighting force defending our newborn country( if u want a good example of the canadian fighting force then ww1 and ww2 are to multiple good examples of both as well as the beor war just to let you know

 

What in the world are you talking about?!? Painting the White House, protecting a new country? Canada didn't win anything in the War of 1812, they just stopped our invasion, an invasion of British territory.

[Northern Neil]

Canada didn't win anything in the War of 1812, they just stopped our invasion, an invasion of British territory.

A technicality here, I think - in the political sense British North America didn't win anything, as this was simply a repelled attack from British territory. However, for the people who were defending their homelands, this would have been considered a great victory, especially given the ferocity with which American troops were exercising in that region.

 

Regards the navy, Kosmo is correct in that the British navy was the worlds most powerful up to the end of WWI. I believe that if Napoleon hadn't been there for us to deal with, the Royal Navy would have subjugated the US Navy due to force of numbers. That said, the US Navy won most of the single ship -to -ship actions of the time, due to the amazing super-frigates of that period such as USS Constitution. Whilst responding to this thread, I found this: http://www.ussconstitution.navy.mil/

 

Regards the Spanish - American war, did the Spanish declare war because they had run out of options? Sometimes when strong states want to keep the moral high ground in a dispute between themselves and a weaker opponant, they present their opponants with a desparate choice in which their only alternatives are to back off and lose territory / face, or declare war to protect their interests. We Brits did it (Siege of Zanzibar), the Germans did it extensively in WWII and the Romans did it with Carthage.

 

However... burnt the whitehouse, eh? Tea and fish n' Chips all round with a sound helping of sprouts and a pint of of Best Bitter!

Edited May 2, 2007 by Northern Neil