the war of 1812

[CiceroD]

We all know people who are history inept who wouldn't know the difference between Plutarch and Petrarch and frankly couldn't care.

 

Imagine however a History major in an American College never hearing of the War of 1812! I beheld this bizarre spectacle today. Admittedly as a student of Modern History (An oxymoron in my opinion) it wasn't his field. His remark that "nothing" happened between the Revolution and Civil War shocked me. Although it was somewhat funny watching the boy's discomfiture as I asked if whether the sack of Washington was "nothing", His ignorance was also scary.

 

I personally believe that this war does not deserve its obscurity. However, I do admit several of its aspects work against its remembrence. Its true that it was declared for other reasons than precipitated it. Its true that the big heroic (American) victory came after the treaty was signed, and its true that it wasn't really won (Many Canadians believe we didn't win the war, with some justification I might add) as much as the reasons for fighting just went away with Napoleon.

 

Should there be an effort to revive the memory of this important episode of History?

 

Or does this Rinky-Dink sideshow of the Napoleonic Wars deserve nothing more than two pages in an American history book? (Like I had)

[Ursus]

Imagine however a History major in an American College never hearing of the War of 1812!

 

 

Imagine, if you will, sitting in a senior year college political science class. The professor, as a joke, asks some brain dead sorority girl which President formulated the Truman Doctrine.

 

.... and she couldn't even guess ....

 

 

:frusty:

 

 

 

Anyway, I can't address your original question as I was never particularly interested in American history untill WWII and the Cold War.

 

I do however believe there may be a reason for little mention of the war: during the World Wars, Germanic contributions to Western Civilization were downplayed in textbooks. On the flip side, the fact that the forces of the British Empire occupied our country and torched the executive mansion was probably not a politic thing when they were fighting in the trenches beside our troops.

[Gaius Octavius]

If the US didn't win that war, we'd all be eating fish and chips and bowing to a monarch. Ay wot!

 

P.S. We did whip the Red Coats at a cost of about a half dozen of ours.

Edited March 6, 2007 by Gaius Octavius

[CiceroD]

I agree that WW1 was the best thing for American-British relations, but all the WWII films that have been made haven't hurt the US's relations with Germany have they?

[docoflove1974]

His remark that "nothing" happened between the Revolution and Civil War shocked me. Although it was somewhat funny watching the boy's discomfiture as I asked if whether the sack of Washington was "nothing", His ignorance was also scary.

 

Not just the War of 1812, but the Mexican-American War (which ended up giving about 1/3 of the Western part of the continent to the US) often gets put into oblivion. Although with that one many would chalk it up to East Coast Bias--as in, anything west of the Mississippi is 'over there'. Still, if not for that war, I would probably have learned Spanish natively (and not have to go through the gruelling grammar drills that I did!).

[Septimus Flavius Galarius]

Well who knows what would have happened if the British had won the Battle of Lake Champlain, part or all of this country may have gone back to the crown, or if Jacob Brown would have pressed the American advantage at Lundys Lane, canada could be part of the U.S. Also it was a widely unpopular war pushed by warhawks in Congress who wanted control of canada, with those who were against the war denounced as traitors despite many being War of Independence veterans, but in the end i think the British finally gained respect for the United States and us Americans. A quote from Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington, who declined to replace Prevost and take command of the American war, after the American victory at Champlain went something like this " Given the current state of the war in North America we are in no postion to demand from the Americans anything."

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

Let's not forget the Spanish-American War; protecting American imperialism! Backing the Monroe Doctrine! We get Phillipines! We get Puerto Rico!

 

Teddy is a hero!

 

(Eventually) Japanese + Philipines = ...

 

 

Ect. ect. ect.

 

Yeah.

Edited March 6, 2007 by Antiochus of Seleucia

[docoflove1974]

Let's not forget the Spanish-American War; protecting American imperialism! Backing the Monroe Doctrine! We get Phillipines! We get Puerto Rico!

 

'Cept that was after the Civil War

[Septimus Flavius Galarius]

Antiochus of Seleucia lets not forget that spain declared war first, and that we only become interested in cuba after the Maine was blown up. Even then we were only concerned with the ongoing independence movement against the spanish by the cubans, until spain declared war. Well by 1902 cuba was an independent nation despite calls to annex it, and as far as puerto rico goes currently only 3% percent of their population favor indepedence with the rest either for continued commonwealth or statehood with the United States. The bottom line is we won spain lost and to the victor go the spoils.

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

'Cept that was after the Civil War

 

Oh I know, I was going off the whole "forgotton wars" theme.

 

Antiochus of Seleucia lets not forget that spain declared war first, and that we only become interested in cuba after the Maine was blown up. Even then we were only concerned with the ongoing independence movement against the spanish by the cubans, until spain declared war. Well by 1902 cuba was an independent nation despite calls to annex it, and as far as puerto rico goes currently only 3% percent of their population favor indepedence with the rest either for continued commonwealth or statehood with the United States. The bottom line is we won spain lost and to the victor go the spoils.

 

Spain declared war first... but which country's citizens clamoured for war?! Spain certainly didn't want war with us! Besides, the United States had been casting an eye on cuba even before slavery was abolished. Southern slave expansionists wanted to annex Cuba to make it a slave state. The only thing stopping us from taking after the Spanish American war was that we didn't want to contradict our Monroe Doctrine. The bottom line is that things are far more complicated under the paperwork! :usaflag:

[Gaius Octavius]

How the Maine went down is still a mystery.

 

Paraphrasing W.R. Hearst: 'Send me the pictures and I'll give you the war'.

Edited March 6, 2007 by Gaius Octavius

[Septimus Flavius Galarius]

Antiochus of Seleucia since when has the South ever spoken for the entire United States. The south has produced such current charming and tolerate people such as Jerry Falwell and James Dobson, not to mention such honest people as Tom Delay and Bill Frist.

 

Gaius Octavius i know it is a mystery, but the explosion, whatever caused it, is what really drew the attention of the United States to cuba and Spain.

[Pantagathus]

The south has produced such current charming and tolerate people such as Jerry Falwell and James Dobson, not to mention such honest people as Tom Delay and Bill Frist.

SFG: Drop it.

 

There are 'charming & honest' people all over this great country but this thread is not the right place to seek them out.

 

Now as to the original post by CD, either that 'history student' wasn't paying attention or their teachers/professers/learning institutions are/were completely subpar.

 

I learned about it in middle school, I learned about it again in high school and went into depth about it in my US History 1 in college. So from my point of view it's a myth that this war was 'forgotten' unless you are considering if it's remembered by people who don't know who the current president is and can't name all 50 States... (Which unfortunately is quite a lot)

 

It was a very important war because if confirmed US Independence and established US Naval superiority (most US Navy traditions find their roots in the Wo1812). Hell, our national anthem was written while Fort McHenry was bombarded during it.

 

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand

Between their loved homes and the war

[Pantagathus]

Not just the War of 1812, but the Mexican-American War (which ended up giving about 1/3 of the Western part of the continent to the US) often gets put into oblivion. Although with that one many would chalk it up to East Coast Bias--as in, anything west of the Mississippi is 'over there'.

But it Doc, that's not true at all; seen as how America was mostly 'Easterners' at that time...

 

In fact, the president at the time and micro-manager of the conflict James K. Polk was born less than 20 minutes from where I grew up. I for one take pride in his one term accomplishments which was mostly the Mexican-American War.

[Kosmo]

It was a very important war because if confirmed US Independence and established US Naval superiority

 

Not so sure about that US naval superiority. Royal Navy still ruled the waves for at least a century after that.

 

I don't know much about this war and maybe because was considered pointless by many and the result was very unspectacular. It's something ironic that the greatest battle was fought after the peace was signed.

I guess that this war goes against the wilsonian theories that fueld so much of US and western international idealist policies: democracies don't fight each other. This was a politically incorect war with related, democratic countries fighting without serious reason and with no result after a prolonged waste of human and material resources.