Publius Nonius Severus Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 (edited) Salvete Omnes! Here is a question I have been pondering for awhile...Did the Tunica Laticlavia consist of of one large stripe down the middle or over the shoulder. For those unfamiliar, the Tunica Laticlavia (Wide Stripe Tunic) was the tunic that a senator would wear under his toga. There is another called the Tunica Angusticlavia (Thin Stripe Tunic) that was worn by those in the equestrian order. My confusion lies in this...there are multiple 19th century historians that describe the laticlavia as one wide stripe down the center of the tunic. Here is an excerpt from William Smith's Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities: "The meaning of these words has given rise to much dispute; but it is now established beyond doubt that the clavus latus was a broad purple band, extending perpendicularly from the neck down the centre of the tunica, and that the clavus angustus consisted of two narrow purple slips, running parallel to each other from the top to the bottom of the tunic, one from each shoulder..." However, there are multiple other sources that suggest that the stripe was over the shoulder. Here is an excerpt from Ovid, Tristia Book IV.X "The years slipping by with a silent step, my brother and I assumed the toga that meant more freedom, and our shoulders were covered by the purple of the broad stripe." Unfortunately, there is not a lot of empirical evidence available. Statues of togate men with tunics underneath, even when the center of the chest can be seen, does not show stripes because the stripe was actually woven into the tunic instead of sewn on top of it, so only a colored statue woud show stripe position. This is not to say that there is not any pictoral evidence of the placement of stripes. Below are images showing stripes (of supposed different widths) over the shoulder (Images and captions are credited to the VRoma Project and used with permission): Wall painting from a lararium in Pompeii depicts both the tunica laticlavia and toga praetexta Mosaic of a man named Frucius (whose narrow stripes indicate equestrian rank) being attended by two slaves. So, there seems to be more evidence in favor of stripes over the shoulder but Smith himself made a very strong statement (albeit over a 100 years ago) when he said "but it is now established beyond doubt " and his is a source I trust greatly. Is anyone aware of any evidence he may have to support the stripe down the middle theory? Have subsequent finds invalidated his theory (Pompeii?)? Does anyone else know more about the topic? I realize that this may seem like an item of trivial importance but in all my efforts I strive for utmost accuracy, hence my interest in the topic and thus I am very interested in your opinions as well. Valete! Edited February 27, 2007 by Publius Nonius Severus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 And the Harper's Dictionary says: "extending from the neck to the under seam" Which makes me visualize it on the side... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Warrior Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I would go with over the shoulder. Simply because I would be far more likely to trust an ancient source on ancient ways than a 19th century historian. Also, there is pictoral evidence to support the stripe going over the shoulder. Is there any evidence to support the stripe going down the center from an ancient source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publius Nonius Severus Posted February 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Pantagathus- Indeed a possibility, thanks! Lost Warrior- The only pictoral evidence I have seen is the depiction of a woodcut drawing that Smith puts in his dictionary of a woman with a stripe down the middle of her clothing that is supposed to be the physical manifestation of "Roma". I am not all that convinced by this though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Warrior Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I had thought that Senators could only be men, so I really wouldn't be convinced at all by a woman being used as evidence of the placement of the Senatorial stripe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldrail Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 True. Mind you, being a woman she probably borrowed it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publius Nonius Severus Posted March 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Omnes- Thanks for all of your responses so far, very insightful! I have found another reference that I would be very interested in garnering your opinion if this supports the down the front or over the shoulder argument or neither. I am torn myself. This time from Quintillian (so we can assume it at least refers to the 1st century AD) regarding the wearing of tunics during oration. Quintilian, Institutio Oratoria , Book 11, Chapter 3: "The speaker who has not the right to wear the broad stripe, will wear his girdle(belt) in such a way that the front edges of the tunic fall a little below his knees, while the edges in rear reach to the middle of his hams. For only women draw them lower and only centurions higher. If we wear the purple stripe, it requires but little care to see that it falls becomingly; negligence in this respect sometimes excites criticism. Among those who wear the broad stripe, it is the fashion to let it hang somewhat lower than in garments that are retained by the girdle." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiceroD Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 It could have been a factor of time period Weren't mid-Republican Togas draped from both shoulders? I'm taking this from Lillian M. Wilson's The Roman Toga her reconstrucion of "The Large Toga of the Republic" Ive noticed that the only way Clavii could be visible with this toga is with a centrally located stripe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publius Nonius Severus Posted March 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 An excellent point Cicero. I have just spent the last 15 minutes or so looking at statues of the late republic and early empire (Mostly Augustus but some Cato as well) and although the toga does run across the right shoulder for the most part it runs behind the shoulder and then comes around the front for the most part leaving a wide diagnol stretch of the front of the tunic uncovered. With this configuration you would see either all of the shoulder stripe or the upper half of the center stripe. I will constinue to search and see. Thanks for your suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 An excellent point Cicero. I have just spent the last 15 minutes or so looking at statues of the late republic and early empire (Mostly Augustus but some Cato as well) and although the toga does run across the right shoulder for the most part it runs behind the shoulder and then comes around the front for the most part leaving a wide diagnol stretch of the front of the tunic uncovered. With this configuration you would see either all of the shoulder stripe or the upper half of the center stripe. I will constinue to search and see. Thanks for your suggestion. I don't think there are any surviving statues of Cato wearing a toga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publius Nonius Severus Posted March 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 I don't think there are any surviving statues of Cato wearing a toga. Sorry, I don't know what made me say Cato...you are correct sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiceroD Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Hmm, I think that by the time of Augustus they had switched over to togas with sinuses. Im taking this from the reliefs on the Ara Pacis. I can e-mail anyone Wilson's reconstruction (Its in PDF form) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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