Freedman questions

[Septimus Flavius Galarius]

Now a freeman could he ever hope of becoming a roman citizen? Also if not then did his children become citizens? I'm just confused how a a roman citizen could have a grandfather as a slave? Was their some kind of qualifications, or test that a freeman could take to become a roman citizen, such as citizens test that immigrants in the U.S. take to become American citizens?

[CiceroD]

Now a freeman could he ever hope of becoming a roman citizen? Also if not then did his children become citizens? I'm just confused how a a roman citizen could have a grandfather as a slave? Was their some kind of qualifications, or test that a freeman could take to become a roman citizen, such as citizens test that immigrants in the U.S. take to become American citizens?

 

A Freedman was locked into his social class. His progeny, however, were not and could even stand for offices.

 

Apparently Freedmen of the Imperial household gained much power in politics. (Much to the chagrin of the Patricians)

[Nephele]

Quoting from A Day in Old Rome, by William Stearns Davis, Professor of History in the University of Minnesota:

 

[The newly manumitted freedman] takes the first part of his master's name; thus that Cleander, manumitted a few years ago by Publius Junius Calvus, now swells about proudly as Publius Junius Cleander. His children will henceforth be Junii, no less lawfully than Calvus's children; with a result that the gentile names of some of the proudest houses in Rome are now also borne by families perforce acknowledging swart Africans or tow-headed Batavians as very near ancestors...

 

Once escaped from actual slavery a great career in life can open before an energetic freedman. If his ex-master is a Roman citizen, he also is now a Roman citizen without any naturalization process. True he is under a social stigma. Not merely he, but his children also, are excluded from the Senate and all the higher offices of the state; but an ex-slave is not likely to suffer from thinness of skin. Compelled in his youth to use his wits and put forth all his energies, he now often possesses abilities, often not very refined or delicate, which carry him far in trade, general business, and finance...

 

An ex-slave cannot avoid becoming substantially the client of his former master. He is supposed to show his patron and his patron's family constant respect and usually a certain amount of service without compensation... For a freedman to show himself neglectful of these obligations, above all to do anything to injure his ex-master, is the depth of depravity. The legal penalties for such "ingratitude" are very severe, and in extreme cases the actual act of manumission itself can be cancelled...

 

-- Nephele

Edited February 26, 2007 by Nephele Carnalis

[Pertinax]

The liberti were given the "Latin Right" , but there freeborn children became full citizens. Within the Republic their status was subject to change and de-restriction (over time). Within the Empire many became a by-word for vulgar materialism, the House of the Vetii (Pompeii) gives an idea of the nature of the material aspiration of the showier person of this class. This does not mean that they failed to fulfill useful tasks, a large percentage of Civil Servants were Freedmen , but Juvenal in particular was keen to satirise their social foibles.

[Northern Neil]

Within the Empire many became a by-word for vulgar materialism, the House of the Vetii (Pompeii) gives an idea of the nature of the material aspiration of the showier person of this class.

 

This drew a tiiter from me, as it has its modern day equivelent: the homes of previously impoverished lottery winners and premiership footballers. Prior to Caracalla, I suppose freedmen could join the Auxilia and become citizens that way. After Caracalla, their citizenship came in tandem with their new free status.

[Pertinax]

Within the Empire many became a by-word for vulgar materialism, the House of the Vetii (Pompeii) gives an idea of the nature of the material aspiration of the showier person of this class.

 

This drew a tiiter from me, as it has its modern day equivelent: the homes of previously impoverished lottery winners and premiership footballers. Prior to Caracalla, I suppose freedmen could join the Auxilia and become citizens that way. After Caracalla, their citizenship came in tandem with their new free status.

 

I actually thought "Footballer's Wives" as I wrote the sentence. It seems to resonate down the ages, the vulgarity of the nouveau contrasted with the studied restraint of the patrician . Micheal Heseltine's stinging put down of a junior minister "He is the sort of person who bought all his own furniture" (an Englishman of elevated class (though rich or poor) would of course inherit furniture, never buy it) would transpose directly into Juvenal's writing.

[Gaius Octavius]

Where would a slave get the money to buy his freedom and what was his legal status thereafter?

[Pertinax]

Where would a slave get the money to buy his freedom and what was his legal status thereafter?

 

He might be granted his freedom via manumission .The relationship with his former master became then one of Patron/client with expected "respect" and reciprocal protection (the concept may be familiar in other Italian inter-communal relationships?), the freedman would tend to be a person having had a close working (or "personal") relationship with his master or a valued well placed worker (say a bailiff for example).The legal status was Latin Right (ie : no vote , but he protection of the law).

 

ps: im not sure if the metic "resident alien" concept is valid beyond the attic world into the early Republican era.

[CiceroD]

I was told (In ancient Greece at least) that when a slave was "loaned out" for whatever purpose they were generally given a few coppers as a reward. he/she could save these later and that way one could buy their freedom.

 

Is this true?

[Pertinax]

Here is a useful general link to aid this thread:

 

http://www.forumromanum.org/life/johnston_5.html#175

 

have a look at item 163, it doesnt quite answer the last question but it makes interesting reading.

[Gaius Octavius]

" The Private Life of the Romans

by Harold Whetstone Johnston, Revised by Mary Johnston

Scott, Foresman and Company (1903, 1932)

 

 

"163. If the slave belonged to the familia rūstica, the opportunities were not so good, but, by stinting himself, he might save something from his monthly allowance of food (