Ultimus Romanorum

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

Anyone else think General Belisarius is worth a vote?

You've certainly made a convincing case for him.

 

It raises the question how tough these super tribes were if Belisarius could defeat not only the Vandals but the Ostrogoths with such small forces of his own. But I digress.

 

These ' super tribes' were a very formidable enemy, they had already conquered most of he Western Empire and were slowly making their way across to the East and would have eventually descended onto Constantinople, they had very capable commanders in Gelimer and Totila and if it wouldn't have been for the intervention of Belisarius the Empire might well have been finished. In between the campaigns against the Vandals and the Ostrogoths he also had to cope with an invasion of Syria by the Persians,in which he ended up negotiating a truce and sending them back to Persia (albeit with a hefty sum of gold) and a promise never to set foot in Byzantine territory for the next five years.

 

Another feather in Belisarius' cap was that he was the last person ever to receive a Roman triumph and also one of the last people ever to be named sole consul.

Edited March 15, 2007 by Gaius Paulinus Maximus

[Julius Ratus]

I always considered the Romanness of the Byzantine Empire to have ended in 1204. After the Empire was restored, it was with a different character.

 

Since Moscow was the Third Rome, Tsar Nicholai II could be considered the last Roman(ov) .

[DecimusCaesar]

Considering that Romulus Augustulus was the last emperor of the Western Empire, he could be considered to be the last of the Romans. I personally would go for Flavius Aetius on that list, although I suppose you could argue that Constantine XI was the last of the Romans as he was the last to wear the Imperial crown. What about the rulers of the Empire of Trezibond? Considering that area was the last enclave of the Byzantines to fall to the Ottomans, it could be argued that Trezibond was the last seat of Roman government.

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

Considering that Romulus Augustulus was the last emperor of the Western Empire, he could be considered to be the last of the Romans. I personally would go for Flavius Aetius on that list, although I suppose you could argue that Constantine XI was the last of the Romans as he was the last to wear the Imperial crown. What about the rulers of the Empire of Trezibond? Considering that area was the last enclave of the Byzantines to fall to the Ottomans, it could be argued that Trezibond was the last seat of Roman government.

To me the phrase "the last of the Romans" doesn't actually mean the very last Roman it means the last true Roman, the one who possessed the attributes we would associate with the Romans of old like courage, pride, belief in themselves and what they stand for, auctorius, dignitas, the kind of things that makes people like us attracted to Rome and the larger than life characters that made her into the greatest empire in the world.

[Maladict]

Considering that Romulus Augustulus was the last emperor of the Western Empire, he could be considered to be the last of the Romans. I personally would go for Flavius Aetius on that list, although I suppose you could argue that Constantine XI was the last of the Romans as he was the last to wear the Imperial crown. What about the rulers of the Empire of Trezibond? Considering that area was the last enclave of the Byzantines to fall to the Ottomans, it could be argued that Trezibond was the last seat of Roman government.

To me the phrase "the last of the Romans" doesn't actually mean the very last Roman it means the last true Roman, the one who possessed the attributes we would associate with the Romans of old like courage, pride, belief in themselves and what they stand for, auctorius, dignitas, the kind of things that makes people like us attracted to Rome and the larger than life characters that made her into the greatest empire in the world.

 

Those attributes could apply to Constantine XI as well. They could even apply to Mehmed, "Kayser-i Rum"

[Neos Dionysos]

These ' super tribes' were a very formidable enemy, they had already conquered most of he Western Empire and were slowly making their way across to the East and would have eventually descended onto Constantinople, they had very capable commanders in Gelimer and Totila and if it wouldn't have been for the intervention of Belisarius the Empire might well have been finished.

 

I am not calling into doubt the ability of Belisarius... but I find it perplexing you call them 'super tribes' and that they would have finished off the Eastern Empire. Both were peoples that the East was well aware of handling and knew them personally, the Ostrogoths especially as they were a formidable faction in the East until the time of Anastasius. However, after Gaiseric, the Vandals had been in decline and the Ostrogoths were on friendly terms with the East, up until the "pretext" for war occurred, all during Theodoric's reign he was "King of Italy" but never used the title only King of the Ostrogoths and was gave de jure suzerainty to Constantinople. Gelimer was not a grand tactician in my mind, and neither was Totila... at least not on a scale to "finish off" Roman power in the East on a scale you make it seem.

 

Considering that Romulus Augustulus was the last emperor of the Western Empire, he could be considered to be the last of the Romans. I personally would go for Flavius Aetius on that list, although I suppose you could argue that Constantine XI was the last of the Romans as he was the last to wear the Imperial crown. What about the rulers of the Empire of Trezibond? Considering that area was the last enclave of the Byzantines to fall to the Ottomans, it could be argued that Trezibond was the last seat of Roman government.

 

 

Julius Nepos was the last legitimate emperor of the West since he died in 480 and until that time had ruled form his base of operations in Dalmatia and Illyricorum. Augustulus was never recognized in the East...

Edited April 17, 2007 by Neos Dionysos

[trimithountios]

It raises the question how tough these super tribes were if Belisarius could defeat not only the Vandals but the Ostrogoths with such small forces of his own. But I digress.

 

 

I think that should atest to his superior generalship rather than the Germanic Tribes being possible pushovers...

 

 

 

I did not vote... since mine would've went to Marcellinus.

He proved his ability against the Sasanids also.He defeated them, when he was 25years old at Dara, with his army half the size of the Persian army.I believe that this is a better testimony to his abilities since the Germanic trops were no much to Byzantine "katafraktoi"