M. Porcius Cato Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 ... nor do I doubt that Antony really loved Cleopatra ... Coming from one who is usually so scrupulous about source information, Cato, that remark takes me by surprise! 100% love? Not even 0.1% doubt? OK, OK, you got me. Instead, let's say, "Love is the best explanation for why Antony--who could have left Cleopatra at nearly any time and who could have had a much easier life without her than with her--renounced his wife and former friends, fought beside Cleopatra, and died in her arms." It's possible that Antony had many independent motives for each of these actions, but the motivation of love is the most parsimonious explanation. It's possible that our sources were all fooled, but that possibility rests on an equally large number of baseless assumptions. But, you're right, it's possible that Antony fooled Cleopatra (and everyone else in the ancient world) about his love. It just seems darned unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 (edited) Coming from one who is usually so scrupulous about source information, Cato, that remark takes me by surprise! 100% love? Not even 0.1% doubt? Dr. A.D., you rotter, you! Actually, I agree with Dr. MPC. Edited February 20, 2007 by Gaius Octavius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Ratus Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 Again, I don't doubt that there were then--as now--a range of of tastes in body fat. But you can't compare a non-representative sample from one historical period to a non-representative sample from a later historical period to make sweeping generalizations about historical changes in taste. The data are equally consistent with changes in sampling rather than historical changes in taste. If someone is fat they eat a lot. If they eat alot they can afford to eat alot. If they have money they are sexy. Back in the day there were no McDonalds and other such industrial eateries. People couldn't afford to eat a lot of meat and other such fattening foods, and if they could, they were rather well off. There's my theory as to why fat girls were dead sexy back in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 If someone is fat they eat a lot. If they eat alot they can afford to eat alot. If they have money they are sexy. This really is a stretch. Age is also correlated with wealth. Are we to assume that old hags were once considered the apex of sexiness? (See Aristophenes' Ecclesiasuzae for some strong counter-evidence.) Further, modern studies certainly don't support this idea. When identical women are dressed in McDonald's uniforms, ordinary white shirts, and business suits, the status markers have no effect on men's judgments of their attractiveness. Do the same manipulation on men's status markers, and you find large effects of status markers on women's judgments of the men's attractiveness. Therefore, if anyone is to be judged sexy for being fat, it would be men and not women. (Gasp! Did you know that men and women have different standards for what's sexy?) There's my theory as to why fat girls were dead sexy back in the day. You have a theory to explain non-existent data. There is no good evidence that "fat girls" were considered sexier "back in the day", so any theorizing is completely premature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 "If anyone does not believe in Venus, they should gaze at my girl friend" (graffitti , atrium of the House of Pinarius , Pompeii): if only he'd left a sketch for us! Perhaps he did..... Though I do note this : "Suspirium puellarum Celadus thraex"( from the Gladiatorial Barracks, Pompeii).So we know Celadus the hulking Thracian Gladiator was favoured by the Babes of Pompeii. Might we suspect that a sporting physique admixed with a tinge of physical danger has always been attractive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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