Byzantine and mongol relations

[Titus001]

I was wondering what kind of relations did the mongols and the byzantines have?Did they ever go to war and have a battle?Were the byzantines a vassal state?I read some where that one of the byzantine kings was so scared of the mongols that he married off his daughter to the mongols.We can also talk about the mongols relations with all of europe also.

[Titus001]

Very cool map on all empires since egypt all the way to our current date.

Edited February 15, 2007 by Titus001

[Titus001]

So anyone here have any info on this subject,or a link to a website for me?

[spittle]

I know the Turkik peoples who displaced the Byzantine Greeks from the area came from way back east. Maybe the Mongols were a first wave of this westwards migration of eastern races?

 

Any site detailing the history of the Turkish peoples should help clarify the issue.

 

AND the Mongols reached Europe so probably passed through (or close by) Byzantium.

[Kosmo]

Byzantines had relation both with Ilkhans of Near East and the Golden Horde of russian steppe. As I said in the first moslem thread in this subforum Trapezunt had ample relations with Ilkhan mongols being under their suzeranity and having some cities in Crimeea in areas under the Golden Horde.

Byzantines and Golden Horde mongols allied and then fought each other for control of Bulgaria especially after the retake of Constantinople and Nogay attacks on Eastern Bulgaria.

[Titus001]

Well, who won the battle?

[Honorius]

As Kosmo already said the Empire of Trebizond had closer relations with the mongols and where vassals but if i do remember one of the seljuk or ottoman sultans was defeated in battle at Kosedag? and was carried around in a cage. I dont recall any battles in thrace between the Byzantines and the Mongols but im sure there were.

Edited February 18, 2007 by Honorius

[Rameses the Great]

Can't the Huns be classifies as Mongols?.

Edited February 18, 2007 by Rameses the Great

[Gaius Octavius]

I also thought that the Huns were Mongols. I have also read that there are a group of people in Switzerland who can trace their lineage to them by the blue dot at the base of their spines.

Edited February 18, 2007 by Gaius Octavius

[Andrew Dalby]

I also thought that the Huns were Mongols. I have also read that there are a group of people in Switzerland who can trace their lineage to them by the blue dot at the base of their spines.

I never got to look at the base of the spine of a Swiss person (or of Attila), so I can't comment on that. But as for whether the Huns were Mongols, no, apparently not. The best piece of evidence known to me is an oracular statement made to a north-eastern Hun monarch, in the year 329, by a Chinese sage. What he said was

 

Syog tieg t'iei lied kang

b'uok kuk g'iw t'uk tang

 

It rhymes, as you see. But it made no sense to any modern readers until the linguist Louis Bazin (in 1948) translated it as an early form of a Turkic language, in which it means:

 

Send out your army,

Capture the warlord!

 

The Hun in question took this advice and became emperor of China, founder of the Later Zhou dynasty. So, anyway, Bazin seems to have shown that the Huns (or, at least, the Huns addressed by this sage) spoke an early Turkic language, not Mongolian.

[spittle]

I'm assuming that the Mongolian language will be tonal and related to Mandarin.

 

Am I right to make these assumptions?

[Kosmo]

There is a lot of debate about the identity between huns and some neighbours of China, but it's still open. I, personnaly, don't think so because huns are mentioned by a roman source in North Caucas areas at an early date. Probably they spoke an early turkish language.

 

Also it's unclear if we can speak of mongols before Genghis Khan. Probably the identity of mongols was shaped by him and his empire.

 

At the battle of Ankara in 1402 Timur Leng (Tamerlan) the leader of Central Asia Ciaghatay Horde defeated decisevly the ottoman sultan Bayazid Ild

[Honorius]

The black sea ports were constantly changing hands like Mesembria and Anchialus though i do recall that Amadeus of Savoy a cousin of the Byzantine emperor John V Paleologos took them back in the 14th century i think from either the Venetians or Bulgarians havent heard of Byzantine-Mongol battles...to my knowledge that is hm..

[Kosmo]

hm?