Coin shows Cleopatra's ugly truth

[docoflove1974]

Who would be an appropriate Mark Antony?

 

I'm thinking of Marty Feldman (?). The fella with the bulging eyes off of Young Frankenstein.

 

Eye-gor running a large part of the empire! Would he make the slap-stick humor work, too?

 

She had a long list of "conquests" so she might had something interesting.

At the period there were a large number of informal relations between roman elites and hellenistic rulers (including Cato' son and the wife of the Cappadocian king and Caesar with the king of Bythnia)

 

Caesar? As in Julius? And a king??

[Publius Nonius Severus]

Caesar? As in Julius? And a king??

 

Some believe it so.

 

Suetonius, The life of Julius Caesar, Chap. 2:

 

"He (Caesar) served his first campaign in Asia on the personal staff of Marcus Thermus, governor of the province. Being sent by Thermus to Bithynia, to fetch a fleet, he dawdled so long at the court of Nicomedes that he was suspected of improper relations with the king; and he lent colour to this scandal by going back to Bithynia a few days after his return, with the alleged purpose of collecting a debt for a freedman..."

[The Augusta]

There's a third possibility too. Antony and Cleopatra were ugly, but ugly people can be romantics too. It's not a pretty possibility--but between the coins and the historical accounts, it fits the data.

 

Let's face it, there are probably very few ancients who were attested as 'beauties' whom we would laud as such today (perhaps with the exception of Augustus). People's perceptions of beauty change with the ages. For instance, all those Rubenesque ladies who were depicted as the epitome of feminine beauty would hardly find takers these days, with our tastes for skeletal women! As for Antony and Cleo, I remember the first time I saw Antony on a coin - I thought he had a chin like Punch (the puppet) and Cleo was more plain than beautiful - although I would not go so far as to say she was actually ugly.

 

And while I would agree with you, Cato, that ugly people can be romantics, I have never bought into the 'Antony lost the world for love' theory, and I never will. I'm with Caldrail and others who have pointed out that Cleo's greatest attribute was her power.

 

 

 

So The Launderette Lady from Barrow-in-Furness would be a more realistic Cleo (than Liz Taylor or Amanda Barrie).

Who would be an appropriate Mark Antony?

 

I'm thinking of Marty Feldman (?). The fella with the bulging eyes off of Young Frankenstein.

 

 

I'd go more for Tommy Coooper, Paul - although I realise our American cousins may not know who he is. Can we find a link?

[Gaius Octavius]

Maybe she had great legs or ....

 

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

The great Tommy Cooper

 

http://www.justlikethat.homestead.com/

[Primus Pilus]

I'd just like to point out that you can't measure what a group thinks is beautiful from the paintings of one guy. For all we know, Rubens had a fat fetish, and his contemporaries had exactly the same range of tastes that we have today.

 

Though, it would seem that tastes can and have shifted over various periods. There was a time when a bit of plumpness may have been regarded simply as healthy and abundant living. Today, due in part to the poor quality of our cheaper and readily accessible foodstuffs, such notions are often quite the opposite.

 

In much the same notion, it's difficult for us to look at a coin of Cleopatra and appreciate the sensibilities of the ancients, but I don't recall any ancient sources calling her "ugly" even after all of the propaganda of Augustus. However, all do attest to her effectiveness as a seductress. If she had been considered truly ugly, then I doubt anyone would have believed it despite her wealth and position. (And of course, as some have mentioned, there are other attributes other than facial appearance that men tend to find attractive).

 

Plutarch does say this though in comparison to Octavia...

Her husband (Octavia'), Caius Marcellus, had died not long before, and Antony was now a widower by the death of Fulvia; for, though he did not disavow the passion he had for Cleopatra, yet he disowned anything of marriage, reason as yet, upon this point, still maintaining the debate against the charms of the Egyptian. Everybody concurred in promoting this new alliance, fully expecting that with the beauty, honour, and prudence of Octavia, when her company should, as it was certain it would, have engaged his affections, all would be kept in the safe and happy course of friendship.

 

It would seem that there were those who hoped that Octavia's beauty would lure Antony away from the Egyptian.

[Jasminia]

I agree with most of the posts made, but would like to add some things not yet mentioned.

 

Coinage was not necessarily considered "art", so accurate depictions are less necessary. They can be considered political billboards due to their wide dissemination, representing power and influence. The stout neck, hooked nose, and her overall ghastly appearance on the coin can be seen to follow a pattern of the vision of power on Roman coins. Because depictions of power in Rome in the period (with the exceptions of gods of course) were of men, that may account in part for an undecidedly unappealing visage.

 

Depicting Cleo with features often associated with other Roman men of power may also have been an intentional ploy to make her seem less foreign and more closely linked with Roman authority.

 

I found an interesting quote: "In the Pens