"These Being the Words of Marcus Tullius Cicero": 2X03

[M. Porcius Cato]

In this episode, the civil wars appear to begin. First, Cicero throws down the gauntlet (finally!), as Antony gives new meaning to the plea "Don't kill the messenger". Then, too, our Dioscurii Vorenus and Pullo come to fisticuffs, with Pullo returning to find Vorenus dispatched to join Antony's army. Finally, Servilia makes her boldest move yet to have her revenge--with a fantastic cliff hanger for next week. And if all that weren't exciting enough, Brutus baptizes himself a born-again Janusian (at least he didn't see Baldie's ghost).

Edited January 29, 2007 by M. Porcius Cato

[Titus001]

Great show but i got questions,who were those people in eastern turkey i did not hear it clearly,were they the parthians?And also i thought octavian and anthony were going to team up to avenge julius caesar's death,im kind of lost thanks for the help.

[Gaius Octavius]

Baldy? Baldy! You had better sleep with your Left eye open. Queen!, indeed!

 

[Primus Pilus]

Great show but i got questions,who were those people in eastern turkey i did not hear it clearly,were they the parthians?

 

Bithynians.

 

I found the show entertaining even as it drifts farther away from historicity and becomes more closely associated with a soap operish drama.

 

I did not care for the assassin/slave hired by Servilia to do away with Atia. It's not the concept, but rather the character that I did not like. I can't imagine a women of Servilia's station allowing a slave to speak to her with such insolence... and to demand a kiss... ridiculous. I think rather that having the dog systematically tortured for not finishing the task he had already been paid to do, or something to that effect would've been more appropriate, in my opinion.

 

I am also disturbed by the notion that Roman citizens (Vorenus' family) are held as slaves in a legionary baggage train. The writers should've at least had Vorenus' sister-in-law attempt to plead with the slavers for her freedom, and have them ignore her as a liar.

 

Anyway, those complaints aside... I was thrilled to see at least one version of the Philippics being read in the Senate house. Alas for the poor fool who was charged with reading it. I rather enjoyed the reaction of the Senators filing out of as Cicero's venom became more evident.

[Julius Ratus]

Cicero certainly gave Antony the "booyah". Unfortunately, Marc will get the last laugh.

 

I wonder how they are going to deal with Agrippa getting the hots for Octavia (can you blame him :wub: ) when Antony is the one who marries her.

 

Octavian Caesar: "Well Marc, since you can't have my mom, have my sister. Oh crap, sorry Agrippa. You can have my daughter instead."

 

 

Edit -- By the way, was it just me or was last nights episode one long perversion-a-thon with two sodomies and two bestiality references? And with two male genetal shots, at least they could have given us one more Atia shot before she goes...

Edited January 29, 2007 by Julius Ratus

[M. Porcius Cato]

?And also i thought octavian and anthony were going to team up to avenge julius caesar's death,im kind of lost thanks for the help.

 

This episode appears to dramatize some of the events of 43 BCE: Cicero delivered his last Phillipics; Antony attacked the assassin Decimus Brutus at Mutina, which prompted a counter-attack by the consuls Hirtius and Pansa, with Octavian's army also participating against Antony; Decimus Brutus and Cicero are murdered; and Atia died.

 

So far as I know, there is no hint in the sources that Atia's death was caused by poisoning.

[M. Porcius Cato]

I did not care for the assassin/slave hired by Servilia to do away with Atia. It's not the concept, but rather the character that I did not like. I can't imagine a women of Servilia's station allowing a slave to speak to her with such insolence... and to demand a kiss... ridiculous.

 

Do we know with certainty that Duro is a slave?

 

On the one hand, free citizens often worked beside slaves for temporary work (like harvesting). Even Cato the Elder talks about working beside his slaves in the fields, and he's not exactly one to boast an egalitarian attitude either. (Perhaps Andrew Dalby has looked into this further.)

 

On the other hand, Servilia's threat to have his tongue nailed to a wagon wheel only makes sense if Duro is a slave. And that Servilia so quickly acquiesced to Duro's impudent demand for a kiss--precisely because it was so impudent and inconceivable--shows how desperate Servilia is to have her revenge on Caesar and Atia at all costs.

 

Regarding Atia, isn't it odd that she has so little knowledge of Macedonia? I'm not talking about the quality of hemp that could be purchased there, but even her knowledge of its social life or climate. Wasn't Atia's first husband a governor in Macedonia?

[Pertinax]

I am looking forward to seeing this new season , as every one seems quite enlivened by it. I have one pressing question..is the Newsreader still declaiming in the Forum?

[Primus Pilus]

I am looking forward to seeing this new season , as every one seems quite enlivened by it. I have one pressing question..is the Newsreader still declaiming in the Forum?

 

Yes, he is quite lively as usual.

[Julius Ratus]

Regarding Atia, isn't it odd that she has so little knowledge of Macedonia? I'm not talking about the quality of hemp that could be purchased there, but even her knowledge of its social life or climate. Wasn't Atia's first husband a governor in Macedonia?

 

According to Wikipedia she was. As much as I like the Atia character in Rome, she is not the same Atia from Suetonius and Tacitus, I am afraid.

[M. Porcius Cato]

BTW, what exactly were "the words of Marcus Tullius Cicero"? In the show, they were:

When I was a young man, I defended our state; as an old man, I shall not abandon it. I give sincere thanks to Mark Antony, who has generously presented me with the most promising theme imaginable. I address you directly Antony. Please listen, as if you sober and intelligent, and not a drink-sodden, sex-addled wreck. You are certainly not without accomplishments. It is a rare man who can boast of becoming a bankrupt before even coming of age. You have brought upon us war, pestilence, and destruction. You are Rome's Helen of Troy; but then, a woman's role has always suited you best.

 

Best I can tell, this is Cicero's Second Philippic, which was a scathing response to a previous attack by Antony, and was published sometime after 25 October 44BC. If you look around, you can find that the writers have used most of Cicero's own words,

"I defended the republic as a young man, I will not abandon it now that I am old.... For just consider a little; and for a moment think of the business like a sober man.... Do you recollect that, while you were still clad in the praetexta, you became a bankrupt? ... As Helen was to the Trojans, so has that man been to this

republic,--the cause of war, the cause of mischief, the cause of ruin."

[Skarr]

Cicero's speech was done quite well, I thought, with a dramatic, albeit violent end as Antony is compared to a "woman" by the frightened senator.

 

I wonder where all the long haired Gauls were in the senate, those who were newly appointed by Caesar. Were they all absconding as there were only a few senators, barely enough to make up a quorum ?

 

Although Cicero sided with Octavian, Antony did have a number of supporters in the senate and in fact, when things got pretty bad some years later between him and Octavian, a number of them fled Rome to join him.

 

Season 2 has so far been pretty entertaining although I found there were a number of gratuitous scenes which could have been avoided or maybe toned down. I think people get it without being too much in your face.

[M. Porcius Cato]

I wonder where all the long haired Gauls were in the senate, those who were newly appointed by Caesar. Were they all absconding as there were only a few senators, barely enough to make up a quorum ?

 

Good question!

 

BTW, as a further note of historical accuracy, Brutus was not at this time attempting to recruit support from Bithynia. Quite the contrary, he had decided that he was finished with politics, and he went to Athens to study philosophy at the Academy.

Edited January 29, 2007 by M. Porcius Cato

[P.Clodius]

Do we know with certainty that Duro is a slave?

I was left with the impression he was jewish, when he demands coinage he asks for "Shekels" to which Servillia doesn't comprehend. A tie in to Timon's brother perhaps?

[M. Porcius Cato]

Do we know with certainty that Duro is a slave?

I was left with the impression he was jewish, when he demands coinage he asks for "Shekels" to which Servillia doesn't comprehend. A tie in to Timon's brother perhaps?

 

I thought Duro was just being fanciful when he asked for shekels. The name Duro--unlike the Hellenized Timon--is Latin, isn't it? Hard.