How much of Rome do you see in America?

[Augustine]

Me and a friend discussed this and he said Rome doesnt have much influence or similiarities to America. As for I, i think we have so much that America is a "New Rome". Both are/were mega powers with the greatest influence on the western world. Both being an Republic(Republic Rome in this case). Thats just some of what I have to say, what is yalls opinions?

[BRENNUS]

I agree i think that the similarities are rather striking in that both had/have a great deal of power and influence over the known world in particulary the west. I think that what's even more eerie is that the fall of the United States will be for reasons very similar to that of Rome (if not almost identical). I guess we just didn't learn from history

[Augustine]

Well, I think unless you go through many reforms, alotve civil wars and so much other stuff, your country/empire is always going to fall. Some of the stuff i lsited may even cause the fall ironicly. But the way America and Rome both began with the rights of the people, and as an republic. This type of gonverment is always best, but it can lead down to a road of bad things because our gonverment becomes so successful and powerful, that its our eventual downfall. I dont think Americas fall is anytime soon, but I think there will be a day that the United States will be a weak country, or an broken country. Like you said, so similar to Rome.

[spittle]

GEORGE WASHINGTON was suckled by AN wolf and killed his brother, DENZIL,

 

The similarities never an end.

[Traianus]

why many americans love being compared with Rome? I think you have much more non-common points with Rome that common ones. .Every empire(well, US is not an empire but you understand me) is different on its own.

And about "the greatest influence on the western world", I don't think that could be a similarity with Rome since Rome "influenced"(a soft word to explain what Rome did) the western world because Rome WAS the western world

[caldrail]

As I've mentioned before, the US constitution was put together by men trained in classical studies, and they took what they considered the best features of the graeco-roman world and built their society on its foundation. The actual day to day influence of rome is marginal, but people being people, we tend to think along similar lines and there are many aspects of our culture that is fundamentally similar to theirs anyway. Architecture? Well we use different materials and styles now but then psychology dictates that certain shapes and styles of buildings still evoke the same responses in us. Law? Again, the US has its system based on roman principles. Its interesting that the romans were equally ligitinous if not more. Army? No. Thats a modern development. Although the organisation and methodology seems similar the old roman ways died out, replaced by more recent experience. Art? Culture? Yes of course there are similarities. People enjoy the same things they always have.

 

I really don't think the influence of rome is as strong as many believe, but it has inspired us from time to time, and certainly some cultures have tried to emulate their success at the behest of the odd dictator or two. The foundation is there. We sometimes emulate their past. Usually we go our own sweet way and ignore the lessons they left us. Which is why it all seems so familiar - we're making all the same mistakes again!

Edited February 1, 2007 by caldrail

[Nephele]

why many americans love being compared with Rome? I think you have much more non-common points with Rome that common ones.

 

 

[DecimusCaesar]

It is strange that of all empires, it is the Roman that is the most imitated. After all, whether it was the Ottoman Turks of the sixteenth century, The Prussians of the eighteenth or the British and French of the nineteenth century, they all based themselves on Rome. Why Rome and not Greece? After all the Macedonians/Greeks created an Empire that ruled a large swathe of the Earth for centuries, and all this at a time when Rome was just a village. All in all, I think it comes down to symbols. The Roman images such as the Imperial Eagle with the lightning bolts in its claws has been imitated by numerous countries. So has the Fasces, the symbol of unity through strength; an image mostly associated with the Nazis today (Fascists) but it can still be seen in Government buildings in the US, Britain, France etc. The Greco-Roman architecture has come to be associated with power and wealth (what with banks and government buildings) and it is the the most obviously 'western' style of architecture. Similar to the way we associate Pagodas with the far east. It is these symbols and images that have endured in modern America, rather than the US being a copy of Rome in its hayday. As many have already pointed out, there were numerous significant differances between the two nations.

[Northern Neil]

US is not an empire...

Maybe not. However... The annexation of territory after the Spanish American war, and the Indian Wars was very empire - like, or at least evokes to me memories of the Roman Republic in its acquisition of territory. Examine closely the present day practices of supporting/disrupting other sovereign governments, having protectorates and financially bound allies, and the concept of always having an enemy, just lurking below the horizon, so as to whip up basic patriotism among the masses.

 

I think it is best to say that powerful states throughout history have all used similar means to acquire and hold on to power, and this includes the European Powers in recent history. For the purpose of this discussion, I include America with the 'European powers' as it was a product of European expansion, has an overwhelmingly European culture, and until recently was largely European in ethnic make up.

 

It still is, linguistically and culturally - hence the beautifully worded declaration of independence, or the fantastic neo - classical monuments of Washington, deliberately created to make a point, and a link to the most powerful empire of ancient times. And like all other empires, it has its immense positive cultural attributes, as well as its pragmatic political aspects.

[Augustine]

Yes, certainly you see different aspects of Rome in other countries such as Russia, England etc. But what I think is so intresting with America is America is a whole ocean away, wasnt even known to the world until 1500's and after the revolution, was almost modeled completely from Rome(The Republic), and you dont ever really see a country modeled after the "republic Rome" but rather the "Empire of Rome". And 300 yrs later, we are taking a very same path Rome did. Obviously there are major differences, but theres so much Rome and for that matter Greek influence in America itself.

[Traianus]

Obviously there are major differences, but theres so much Rome and for that matter Greek influence in America itself.

 

For sure, I absolutely agree that the US are influenced by Rome and consequently by Greece, I think that is obvious in engineering, architecture or laws...but to assume for that that US is "a new Rome" is a strong affirmation.

 

So, here's what I want to mean, why the fact that US is influenced by Rome gives you the idea that US is "a new" Rome, if we follow this rule, France, Germany or any european country can be Roma...roman-style buildings are in everywhere, not only in washington and about culture and politics, as it was pointed out before, US culture is similar to the European one (something that I totally disagree too ) so we go again with the same, any country of here can be "a new " rome from your point of view

 

P.D: Sorry for my English

Edited February 3, 2007 by Traianus

[Northern Neil]

wasnt even known to the world until 1500's

...apart from the people who already lived there.

[Ursus]

Lately this "universal history" folder has become nothing but a bad excuse to discuss modern American politics.

[Pertinax]

This is one topic area that has been covered many times. Perhaps the Hora Postillia would be the best place for a topic that swamps all other attempts to discuss historical milieu?

[Northern Neil]

Lately this "universal history" folder has become nothing but a bad excuse to discuss modern American politics.

I can understand you frustration here, Ursus, but I think there is only this and one other thread which is currently discussing modern day US politics. But given that The US is currently the richest, most influential and (politically) the most interesting country in the world at present, surely that is no surprise? Given that there are more Americans suscribing to this forum than any other nationality, it also gives us non-citizens a chance to learn something, or to inform on things which may have escaped the media in the US, and I think thats a good thing.

Edited February 3, 2007 by Northern Neil