Maty Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Many if not most people, speak to their god/gods. The process is called 'prayer'. In the ancient world, the Gods certainly talked back. However, ancient gods were patrons of the entire community, and much less interested in the individual than the average modern deity. Therefore, their messages tended to be 'broadcast' by way of things like portents, and significant lightning bolts, which average citizens were obliged to report to the priestly authorities, who decided if this was indeed a divine message, and if so, a) which god was involved, and what he was hinting at. If an individual or community had a direct question for the Gods, then it was off to the appropriate oracle for a consultation. Contrary to an earlier post ('the Pythia of Delphi ... would drool and go into a frenzy and mutter gibberish' ) The Pythia answered questions in a clear, calm voice. She actually sat in an underground chamber curtained off from the questioner, so if she did decide to do any drooling this was up to her, and did not affect the visitor's oracular experience in any way. Modern theory is that the mountain on which Delphi is situated had an underground spring, and the interaction of water on the rocks there allowed the chamber to fill with sweet-smelling hydrocarbon fumes. These, according to modern researchers produce an illusion of immense mental clarity. Nor would the ancients have disagreed with any of this - Plutarch (who was a priest of Delphi) says pretty much the same thing. Only he believed that the clarity thus induced allowed the voice of the god to be heard. There are many other instances in the ancient histories of of the Gods dropping in for a chat with mortals, from when an early Julian claimed to have met Romulus after his death and transformation into the god Quirinus to when Athena appeared in a dream to several people in Ephesus, and breathlessly announced that she had been busily wrecking the siege engines of Mithridates at Cyzicus (which were indeed destroyed in a storm that night.) How much of this strikes you as credible depends on your own set of beliefs. However, I note that a piece of toast which spontaneously generated an image of the Virgin Mary recently sold for a good price on eBay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Contrary to an earlier post ('the Pythia of Delphi ... would drool and go into a frenzy and mutter gibberish' ) The Pythia answered questions in a clear, calm voice. She actually sat in an underground chamber curtained off from the questioner, so if she did decide to do any drooling this was up to her, and did not affect the visitor's oracular experience in any way. Modern theory is that the mountain on which Delphi is situated had an underground spring, and the interaction of water on the rocks there allowed the chamber to fill with sweet-smelling hydrocarbon fumes. These, according to modern researchers produce an illusion of immense mental clarity. Nor would the ancients have disagreed with any of this - Plutarch (who was a priest of Delphi) says pretty much the same thing. Only he believed that the clarity thus induced allowed the voice of the god to be heard. The hydrocarbon that is the most likely candidate is ethylene, which has the fragrant odor described by Plutarch and has been cited by previous scholars. The cognitive effects of ethylene depends greatly on the dosage. At low levels (90% O2/10% ethylene), the Pythia would have experienced only mild euphoria; at moderate levels (82-90% O2), the clarity of her speech and alertness would be affected; at higher levels (64-82% O2), she would have been fatigued, belligerent, illogical, and seeing things; still higher levels would have resulted in loss of consciousness and death. Given these numbers, whether the Pythia muttered gibberish or answered questions articulately probably depended on the concentration of ethylene in the closed, confined space in which she worked and how long ago she had last gone out for some fresh air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maty Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Thanks for the figures here Cato - I'm doing some work on Delphi at the moment, and was looking for something like this. As far as we know the Pythia received only a mild to moderate dose. Firstly, the chamber took time to have its potency restored after each use, and secondly, more potent gusts spilled out of the chamber (as Plutarch records) Also, the Pythia was red-faced and breathless after each session (rather than non compos mentis), though the general theory was that possession by Apollo tends to have that sort of effect. It's also interesting that when the oracle deteriorated and finally stopped working, the priests at Delphi admitted it, and did not try to run some form of charade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docoflove1974 Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 So then, after Delphi was 'closed down', was there a 'central' oracle that everyone moved to? Or was there another 'standard' way of talking to the gods in order to find out about the consequences of their decisions? I know that the reading of entrails had often been done both before and since, but to be honest, nothing seems as widely 'accepted' at the time as Delphi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Warrior Posted January 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Not all of us are crazy, though it's clear some of us are. Hey now, just because I'm crazy doesn't mean that God really isn't speaking to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 So then, after Delphi was 'closed down', was there a 'central' oracle that everyone moved to? Or was there another 'standard' way of talking to the gods in order to find out about the consequences of their decisions? I know that the reading of entrails had often been done both before and since, but to be honest, nothing seems as widely 'accepted' at the time as Delphi. Delphi was the most popular in the Greco-Roman world, but there were other oracles. One example: At Dodona at Greece there was an oracle to Zeus. The method of divination was listening to the rustling of oak leaves! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docoflove1974 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Figures that there were others. Oak leaves...I did that as a kid, mostly because it was fun to sit in the back field on a breezy day and listen to everything. Maybe I was receiving divine messages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Warrior Posted January 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Figures that there were others. Oak leaves...I did that as a kid, mostly because it was fun to sit in the back field on a breezy day and listen to everything. Maybe I was receiving divine messages! What were the leaves saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docoflove1974 Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 Figures that there were others. Oak leaves...I did that as a kid, mostly because it was fun to sit in the back field on a breezy day and listen to everything. Maybe I was receiving divine messages! What were the leaves saying? Stay outside longer...go pick wild flowers...throw rocks at my brother...ok, maybe not that one lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.