Pertinax Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 Proserpine as the female "animus" is perhaps the key-Venus ( the light ie:life , beauty/conception/abundance ) versus (or rather day versus night of the same entity) Hecate as crone and bringer of death/solace/peace. http://www.usefultrivia.com/mythology/proserpine.html an undemanding look at the mythology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cohort Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 I am flummoxed ..I have done a fair bit of reading regards roman funeral rites..I have never come across the breast milk in the mouth rite....was that an invention of the director, or is there such a rite? I think it may be Egyptian: Caesar did follow the ways of Egypt a great deal, and may have brought them with him: In the funeral rites of ancient Egypt, it was sung that milk should never be far from the mouths of the dead. In the Egyptian Pyramid texts, Ra is asked to bestow the milk of Isis upon the deceased, thereby rendering them a surrogate child of the goddess. Utterance 406 requests abundance on behalf of the dead: Greetings to thee RA in thy beauty, in thy beauties, in thy places, in thy two-thirds gold. Mayest thou bring the milk of Isis to (name of the dead), and the flood of Nephthys, the swishing of the lake, the primaeval flood of the ocean, life, prosperity, health, happiness, bread, beer, clothing, food, that (name) may live thereof Both nourishment and sweetness are asked for to strengthen the act of remembrance and after Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caesar CXXXVII Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 Yes, the accuracy was a bit lacking As usual , it is a show...but "Octavian" in the funeral ?!?! He was at...well you all know where BTW - If you can bring a source (ancient) that used the name "Octavian" or "Octavianus" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 BTW - If you can bring a source (ancient) that used the name "Octavian" or "Octavianus" ? We know there is no evidence whatsoever that Octavius ever took the name Octavianus upon his adoption by Caesar, as custom would dictate. Regardless, it became a popular method to differentiate between the two Caesars, so it is what it is, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 Something I realized that did not occur to me while actually watching the show. The thug who threatened Antonius (and ultimately lost his life) seems to have been the very same "Quintus" Pompey from season 1. After doing a bit of investigation (reading the episode synopsis on HBO's site), it appears that this is very much the case. In various discussions of season 1, we were never able to determine who this was supposed to represent. Several of us (myself included) seemed to think he was intended to represent a conglomeration of various Caesarian opponents, or perhaps just the two sons of Pompey. We know that Quintus cannot be Gnaeus Pompeius Minor, since he was killed just after Munda in 45 BC. Since Sextus survived to play a pivotal role in the development of the Republic's ultimate demise, clearly this Quintus cannot be (or should not be) a representation of Sextus. This unfortunate fictionalization of events leads me to wonder how and when season 2 will actually end. Despite the inaccuracy, at least it leaves me guessing. Considering the absence of Lepidus so far (and I presume a continuing absence as the season develops), I suppose I should not be surprised if the conflict involving Sextus Pompeius is not a factor in the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Augusta Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 BTW - If you can bring a source (ancient) that used the name "Octavian" or "Octavianus" ? We know there is no evidence whatsoever that Octavius ever took the name Octavianus upon his adoption by Caesar, as custom would dictate. Regardless, it became a popular method to differentiate between the two Caesars, so it is what it is, I suppose. Quite! Even I, PP, as nit-picking an old curmudgeon as you can find, agree that NOT to call him Octavian at this stage in history would be very pedantic. Something I realized that did not occur to me while actually watching the show. The thug who threatened Antonius (and ultimately lost his life) seems to have been the very same "Quintus" Pompey from season 1. After doing a bit of investigation (reading the episode synopsis on HBO's site), it appears that this is very much the case. In various discussions of season 1, we were never able to determine who this was supposed to represent. Several of us (myself included) seemed to think he was intended to represent a conglomeration of various Caesarian opponents, or perhaps just the two sons of Pompey. We know that Quintus cannot be Gnaeus Pompeius Minor, since he was killed just after Munda in 45 BC. Since Sextus survived to play a pivotal role in the development of the Republic's ultimate demise, clearly this Quintus cannot be (or should not be) a representation of Sextus. This unfortunate fictionalization of events leads me to wonder how and when season 2 will actually end. Despite the inaccuracy, at least it leaves me guessing. Considering the absence of Lepidus so far (and I presume a continuing absence as the season develops), I suppose I should not be surprised if the conflict involving Sextus Pompeius is not a factor in the show. Again, I can only agree. The fact that there are only two more episodes after Philippi suggests that we are not going to get much further than 'the official death of the Republic on the plains of Philippi' angle. It would also make sense to finish it somewhere around there if there had been a third series planned and then pulled, which is what seems to have happened. They could perhaps throw Perusia and the risings of 41BC in, as an attempt to show how the combined forces of Antony, Lepidus and Sextus Pompey et. al. did NOT take the opporunity to rid Rome of Caesar's son. Perhaps the Treaty of Brundisium would be a decent enough place to end. All smiling faces and hidden mistrust of each other - that sort of thing. But there again, that would only make sense if there were to be a series 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plautus Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 The episode was good fun. Upon reflection, if I have one bone to pick, I am sorry they didn't portray Anthony's Funeral Oration of Caesar. Hearing it second hand was like the short shrift given to the Battle of Pharsalia in the first season. I am enjoying the idea of Brutus as a overbred elitist snob. I like the portrayal. Makes Americans feel lucky that George Washington was sterile. Imagine trying to elect leaders with a George Washington XIV hanging around. Or a George W. Washington? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Ratus Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 I liked the way they left out the funeral oration and told it second hand. We have Shakespeare and Suetonius to show me the oration. I just wished that they had spent more time on Erastes, if anyone ever deserved a drawn out death... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violentilla Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 I liked the way they left out the funeral oration and told it second hand. We have Shakespeare and Suetonius to show me the oration. I just wished that they had spent more time on Erastes, if anyone ever deserved a drawn out death... I also liked the way it was portrayed. I think visually, it was more striking to show the state funeral of Caesar versus the private funeral of Niobe, and that was done beautifully. We know that Antony stirred up the crowd, and we see that. Besides, who wants to compete with Shakespeare on such a wonderfully worded speech? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plautus Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Does anybody know what Voerenus and Pullo were collecting from the ashes of Niobe's pyre and why? Was there a designated area of Rome where such cremations were done? Vatican Hill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Does anybody know what Voerenus and Pullo were collecting from the ashes of Niobe's pyre and why? Was there a designated area of Rome where such cremations were done? Vatican Hill? They were collecting her bones presumably to be interred. The William Smith Dictionary entry offers a basic overview... funerals. When the pile was burnt down, the embers were soaked with wine, and the bones and ashes of the deceased were gathered by the nearest relatives (Virg. Aen. VI.226‑228; Tibull. i.3.6, iii.2.10; Suet. Aug. 100), who sprinkled them with perfumes, and placed them in a vessel called urna (Ovid, Ann. III.9.39; feralis urna, Tacit. Ann. III.1), which was made of various materials, according to the circumstances of individuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divi Filius Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 They were collecting her bones presumably to be interred. This is actually explained in great detail in the Iliads funeral of Patroclus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Clodius Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 The episode was good fun. Upon reflection, if I have one bone to pick, I am sorry they didn't portray Anthony's Funeral Oration of Caesar. Hearing it second hand was like the short shrift given to the Battle of Pharsalia in the first season. Agreed...But I have to keep reminding myself that Caesar et al are really just background stories to what is happening in Pullo and Vorenus' life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caesar CXXXVII Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 I did not see the episode , it will take many weeks to come to my corner... Why it is called Passover ? (Caesar was murdered on 15th of Mars , the funeral must have been conducted 2 to 10 days later ? Passover is usually at the end of Mars or the beginning of April , That is the connection ?) Me pedant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 I did not see the episode , it will take many weeks to come to my corner...Why it is called Passover ? (Caesar was murdered on 15th of Mars , the funeral must have been conducted 2 to 10 days later ? Passover is usually at the end of Mars or the beginning of April , That is the connection ?) Me pedant... I am sometimes quite oblivious to such subtleties, but my guess is that you're right and it was simply a matter of the date and general timing. There didn't seem to be any references to the Jewish holiday in the show anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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