Trade and More?

[caldrail]

"... but as with roman traders in china, ...."

 

Off topic, but would you please expand on that?

 

 

Not by much I'm afraid. I've only read a few scant sentences on the subject. We know rome and china had trade links. China wanted roman gold, Rome wanted chinese silk. They were well aware of each others existence, and it was only the distance that prevented any official dealings. Now to some extent the trade route was a relay of merchants passing goods on, but I can't believe that nobody travelled to see it. Human beings are inquisitive creatures and where potential profit is involved, they're willing to take risks. Now this means that possibly a handful of people made the journey ever. You might wonder why nothing was made of it, why a roman 'marco polo' hasn't come to our attention. I accept that, but then look at the disbelief Marco Polo encountered when he returned. He only got the credit because of the wealth he smuggled back with him. I am going to look further into this area because the possibility of ancient travel fascinates me. It wasn't impossible, people knew these lands were there, the potential gain was obvious, and so were the dangers involved.

 

Funny thing is it turns out to be the complete opposite of what I expected. According to my research today it was the chinese who made contact, not the other way around. Apparently they convinced the persians to put aside their hostility and linked up with roman Syria in the 1st century ad. Which in itself is interesting because previously I've come across references to an aborted attack by a chinese army against the roman eastern frontier in the 90's ad which I cast doubt on partly because the parthians/persians weren't going to be happy about foreign armies marching across their land. Its looking very interesting.

[caldrail]

The information I've got to date amounts to this...

 

The chinese explorer Chang Ch'ien investigated central asia c.138bc and brought back reports that included Egypt. Caravans have already begun circulating goods between Rome and China without direct contact. East to west trading predominates. The parthians were keen to foster this trade. Rome exported glass, copper, tin, lead, red coral, textiles, pottery, and currency. They imported arabian incense, chinese silk, and from India precious stones, muslin, and spices.

 

In 85ad roman links with Taprobane (ceylon) had been established.

 

A chinese general by the name of Pan Ch'ao was busy controlling oases in the mongolian desert against any threat and fended off a Kushan invasion from India in 90ad. Following that, Pan Ch'ao led his army across the Pamir Mountains to reach the Caspian Sea. There he made contact with the parthians in 97ad who persuaded him not to send an embassy to Rome. The parthians I think, were wary of allowing themselves to be threatened by a roman/chinese alliance.

 

By the end of the 1st century ad chinese merchants have established links in roman Syria. This appears to be a one-off visit.

 

100ad saw the publication of 'The Peoples of the Erythraean Sea', a roman guide to navigating the Indian Ocean.

 

The Silk Road was opened for business c.112ad. Caravans did not usually travel straight through but goods were passed between local peoples, and the parthians/persians in particular gained an economic boost from the additional tolls.

 

By 360ad chinese merchants were said to have reached the Euphrates. I'm not sure if this was a regular occurence or another exploratory mission.

 

During the 3rd century ad the Silk Road is becoming unviable as the chinese are pushed out of the Tarim basin. Both Rome and China are under pressure from northern barbarians. Sea travel becomes the alternative. Greek ships are known to reach Ceylon, and chinese vessels meet indian merchants at Oc Eo in Cambodia.

[jbs]

Recently their has been speculation that Roman soldiers crossed into China, as there are in the province of Gansu, several villages where Roman features are common on the people. The experts have put this down to Roman blood.

 

This perhaps shows that the contact between the two cultures was more expansive and direct than previously thought.

[caldrail]

I really don't believe they marched there by their own choice! It is possible that some roman legionary POW's were sold on in the slave trade. Thats a recurrent rumour. The only face to face contact was through chinese merchants travelling to Syria, and that happened once. Given the period, that was an exceptional achievement in my book. The romans, for all their love of luxury and curiosities, were not an expansive culture beyond military conquest. They preferred to bring the world to them via trade.

 

Actually I've just realised that there is a tiny remote possibility of roman sailors going further than Ceylon and ending up shipwrecked very far from Rome. But thats idle speculation.

Edited March 15, 2007 by caldrail

[Kosmo]

Actually I've just realised that there is a tiny remote possibility of roman sailors going further than Ceylon and ending up shipwrecked very far from Rome. But thats idle speculation.

 

I really doubt that those sailors were latin speakers. The Red sea trade was well established in ptolemeic times and was done by greeks and orientals. Probably that did not change when Rome conquerd Egypt.

[Gaius Octavius]

See:

 

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5479&st=30

 

I am positive that there is another thread, but I can't find it now.

[caldrail]

So far we've got some idea of east/west trade, but I'd also like to know how extensive north/south trade was. Scandanavia? Equitorial africa? Does anyone know anything?

[Kosmo]

A trade route to the Baltic sea started from Pannonia to the Marcomanii and over Carpathian monutains and down the Vistula. Scandinavia proper and North Sea trade I don't know.

There is a convincing theory that no transsaharian trade took place either by sea or land.

[Divi Filius]

Scandanavia?

 

I have heard that extensive Roman coinage has been discovered in these areas. Ill look for the source.

[caldrail]

I've heard of a trade mission returning from scandanavia 'laden with amber' during the principate.

[Gaius Octavius]

In re that 'other thread' mentioned by me above, there was an information about the Chinese putting a Roman in charge of one of their southeastern provinces.