Clashes with Norsemen

[Gladius Hispaniensis]

Ave

I was just wondering if Roman troops ever clashed with Norse invaders from Scandinavian countries. I know the Norsemen did not really become notorious until much after the fall of the Western Empire but I do remember reading that Britain was starting to experience its first Scandinavian raids a little before the time of Honorius. Does anyone know anything about this. Thanks in advance

[Quintus]

I won't pretend to be any kind of expert on Roman history, but I remember reading somewhere that the Goths came from Scandinavia, and the Romans certainly shed blood with Goths, but I don't know how much you would consider Goths 'Norse'. To me they're all the same, I cherish the stereotypical view of the barbarians who drank too much, loved violence and scorned everything beautiful...to me they're all the same.

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

I won't pretend to be any kind of expert on Roman history, but I remember reading somewhere that the Goths came from Scandinavia, and the Romans certainly shed blood with Goths, but I don't know how much you would consider Goths 'Norse'. To me they're all the same, I cherish the stereotypical view of the barbarians who drank too much, loved violence and scorned everything beautiful...to me they're all the same.

The Goths originally came from Sweden, but when they migrated to Vistula, they by the time of Christian Rome were already embedded in that region, thus barely Scandinavian at all.The Goths were actually pretty darn civilized for barbaros after they were incorporated into Christianity and the Roman legions.

 

Anyways, my theory is that the Scandinavians(besides the Goths) really didn't have much contact with Rome because they were too damn busy fighting amongst themselves for living space and with intense competition from the Germanics of mainland Europe.

 

They only became a serious/vexing threat around the time of Charlemagne.

Edited December 30, 2006 by FLavius Valerius Constantinus

[Northern Neil]

The Jutes from modern day Denmark (Jutland) indeed came into contact with Rome; Carausius' navy encountered them on many of their raiding expeditions on the Saxon Shore. But they in turn were displaced by the Danes, who gave Denmark its name and were certainly Vikings, or Norsemen. So I'm not sure whether or not the Jutes count...

[Gladius Hispaniensis]

The Jutes from modern day Denmark (Jutland) indeed came into contact with Rome; Carausius' navy encountered them on many of their raiding expeditions on the Saxon Shore. But they in turn were displaced by the Danes, who gave Denmark its name and were certainly Vikings, or Norsemen. So I'm not sure whether or not the Jutes count...

I always thought the Jutes were part of the Angle/Saxon/Jute invasion of post Roman Britain. If you are right that would mean the Angles and Saxons came from Germany and the Jutes from a completely different place, Scandinavia. Hmm, interesting.

Cheers, Gladius xx

Edited December 31, 2006 by Gladius xx

[Northern Neil]

The Angles and Saxons came from Northern Germany (present day Sleswig - holstein) and the Jutes from slightly further North. They gave 'Jutland' its name. Today, part of Jutland is German, the rest is Danish. The Wends were also involved in the invasion and settlement of Britain. They apparantly were Slavs.

[votadini]

The Wends were also involved in the invasion and settlement of Britain. They apparantly were Slavs.

 

Almost certainly, although the term Wends was seemingly applied by the Franks to anyone between the Oder and Elbe as a 'Wend.'

[Kosmo]

NN that Wendii invading England thing it's interesting. They were not seafearing and they did not had acces to the North Sea. How did they get there? Thru the saxons?

[Julius Ratus]

NN that Wendii invading England thing it's interesting. They were not seafearing and they did not had acces to the North Sea. How did they get there? Thru the saxons?

 

The closest the Norse came to fighting Romans was when the Rus attacked Constantinople, and were soundly beaten.

[Andrew Dalby]

NN that Wendii invading England thing it's interesting. They were not seafearing and they did not had acces to the North Sea. How did they get there? Thru the saxons?

 

The closest the Norse came to fighting Romans was when the Rus attacked Constantinople, and were soundly beaten.

 

But then they went and fought *for* the Romans (for the Byzantines, that is, in the "Varangian Guard") and did pretty well ...

[Gaius Octavius]

Perhaps, nothing more than a wild possibility. I understand that Roman merchants traded for amber with neighboring peoples. It is possible that some of these merchants went to the source of the amber in the modern Baltic states. They might have been accompanied by a (private?) contingent of legionaries to protect against bandits. Minor clashes could have occurred with Norsemen.

 

Just guessing here; not gospel truth.

[votadini]

They might have been accompanied by a (private?) contingent of legionaries to protect against bandits. Minor clashes could have occurred with Norsemen.

 

During the Empire, how common would such private retinues have been?

[Gaius Octavius]

They might have been accompanied by a (private?) contingent of legionaries to protect against bandits. Minor clashes could have occurred with Norsemen.

 

During the Empire, how common would such private retinues have been?

 

I don't know if at all. As I said, this is pure conjecture and not to be relied upon. A more knowledgeable member than me will have to answer your question.

Edited January 9, 2007 by Gaius Octavius

[Divi Filius]

The Goths originally came from Sweden, but when they migrated to Vistula, they by the time of Christian Rome were already embedded in that region, thus barely Scandinavian at all.The Goths were actually pretty darn civilized for barbaros after they were incorporated into Christianity and the Roman legions.

 

The Goth's could have also come from modern Poland, or from the Gotones in Tacitus accounts...

[Julius Ratus]

As far as I know, the whole basis of the argument for the Goths comming from Scandanavia is the similarity of the name "Goth", to that of the Gotar, the southernmost of the two in Sweeden at the time (the other one being the Svear). For the most part, the Goth = Gotar thing is largely ignored by modern historians, there being little further evidence beyond the name simularities.

 

The Jutes were rather well connected witht he Romans, fighting as mercenaries in Brittain for the Romans, and colonizing it after they left (the "invasion" of England by the Germanic people was similar to the colonization/invasion of America. The term used is dependant upon which side you were on).

 

There have been numerous Roman artifacts unearthed in modern Denmark, found in graves, often coins. For more about Scandanavian contact with Rome read "The Vikings" by Else Rosedahl.