Gaius Octavius Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 N.N. Thank you for the compliment. I also enjoy your lucid and informative posts. Upon reflection, my use of that term was in poor taste, and I apologize to all for its use. You might find it odd that I agree with your last post save for the first sentence in the last paragraph. I abhor violence of any stripe, be it facial, verbal or physical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spittle Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 To ramses the Great. If you cannot debate with me without becoming pretty and bitchy then lets avoid discussions together. As for your cherry picked arguments... you contradict yourself. On one hand Christianity is being wiped out in the mid-East, on the other the government allows Bibles to be placed in hotel rooms. that doesn't sound very fanatical. And ifs its not my business about your ancestry why did you start the subject in an answer to my previous thread 'Oldest Families'? Maybe you should stick to "Craziest things ever done for beer" type threads. Its the level you work on. And whether its Christian or Muslim owned hotels have an obligation to throw out hookers, maybe thats what your not being told. How else could such a downtrodden segment of Egyptian society save enough to start fresh in the West? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 This thread is arena bound. Watch the insults or you'll find yourself starting out the New Year on moderated status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rameses the Great Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 (edited) To ramses the Great.If you cannot debate with me without becoming pretty and bitchy then lets avoid discussions together. Fine. As for your cherry picked arguments... you contradict yourself. On one hand Christianity is being wiped out in the mid-East, on the other the government allows Bibles to be placed in hotel rooms. that doesn't sound very fanatical. What part of Western corportation did you not get? I told you there is nothing the Egyptian government can do about it, yet that very government neglects the plea of Christians. And ifs its not my business about your ancestry why did you start the subject in an answer to my previous thread 'Oldest Families'? The reason why I can't find anything out about my ancestry is not a road I want to go down with. A lot of the archives were destroyed by Muslims. Another reason is a lot of my grandparents died before I got to meet them, and the only one I ever knew, I did not bother to ask any questions. Egypt's not like Western Europe, I just can't find out easily or at all for that matter. Maybe you should stick to "Craziest things ever done for beer" type threads. Its the level you work on. Fine. And whether its Christian or Muslim owned hotels have an obligation to throw out hookers, maybe thats what your not being told. How else could such a downtrodden segment of Egyptian society save enough to start fresh in the West? I told you the truth, and I did not lie. To tell you the truth through what my ancestors have been through in Egypt from these catastrophies is something I don't take lightly. I can't debate with someone who says Islam is tolerant sitting cozily in England getting his facts from Muslim friends. Edited January 1, 2007 by Rameses the Great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spittle Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 This is the last I will say on this subject and I will not take part in discussions of politics or religion after this. I agree with the war in Iraq, I'm not a naive 'love can rule the world' type. England is not cozy. We have had suicide attacks in London from Muslims born and raised less than 20 miles from my home. I come from Wakefield, west yorkshire. The London Bombers came from Leeds and Dewsbury (also West Yorkshire). In Bradford (sometimes known as Bradistan) riots break out periodically and hard drugs are sold by ethnic groups as openly as if they were selling fruit. I have spent time in Turkey, Malaysia, Phillipines and Morocco (Religious bombings were happening in the last two due to Christian/Muslim tensions (Phil) and Algerian radicals (Mor). The comment about Coptics was a genuine suggestion at possible ways to research your ancestry. I would have thought that belonging to a small but close knit community would have been helpful. If I could go back in time and keep Britain from becoming multi-racial I would but thats not a possibility now without ethnic clensing so I advocate making the best out of the situation we have. Most of the Muslims I have met have a genuine interest in Western (American) popular culture and would love to have the freedoms that we take for granted. The Egyptian government could make the hotel take the Bibles out of the rooms but it chooses not to. What part of my argument do you not get? Happy New Year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divi Filius Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 (edited) Churches are being burned in Albania and Bosnia. I don't know about Bosnia, but churches in Albania are being built in disproportionate levels. There are all kinds of them, Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox. Infact in the capitol of Tirana there is a plan to build one of the biggest Orthodox Cathedrals in the Balkans, in the middle of a city. Just a few blocks away there is a Catholic University that overlooks one of the major streets of the capitol. There is yet to be an Islamic university and all there is so far is a madresse hidden in one of the worst streets. The Evangelicals are also given heavy manuevering space. So much so that now they want to reconvert an old church that was turned into mosque after Mehmet II conquest back into a church. I personally dislike this whole "I want this back" mentality. It's like everybody want's to erase the time period which they dislike about their history. This is especially a problem in the Balkans. They smashed Hindu and Budhists temples. This goes both ways, during major riots there were numerous mosques destroyed by Hindu's in India. Edited January 1, 2007 by Divi Filius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 This goes both ways, during major riots there were numerous mosques destroyed by Hindu's in India. ... after the temples were desecrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmo Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Muslims fight the christians of Middle East and those of the West, but christianity has more serious problems like many people giving it up. Seeing the wars in Jugoslavia as religiously motivated it's wrong. Neither the combatant nor their leaders were motivated by religion but by nationalism. As they spoke, practically, the same language it was formal religion what defined their national identity. Do you really think that former comunists like Milosevici, Izetbegovici and Tudjman cared about any religion? They fought because those leaders wanted power and got it by unleashing violence. The conflict between West and radical Islam it's not based on religion as the West has no religion but on power and ideology. Ottomans had the right to turn Hagia Sophia in a mosque and the spaniards had the right to turn the Cordoba mosque in a cathedral and no one living then would have questioned this. Asking now, in postcolonialist fashion, to correct the string of injustices that make up history it's dumb. What Ataturk did was a measure of his skill in befrending former enemies but also of his policy of laicization. He also striped the sultan of his title of calif. He placed the bow and other artifacts of prophet Mohamed in a museum exhibition instead of a worshiping place. He changed the language, the alfabet, the laws and everything else creating a new nation and a new state where religion was much less important. There is no similarity between Turkey then and Spain now. A good muslim will regard christians and jews as the People of the Book, that have the right of protection as second class citizens. He could never share a holy place with them because it is in his religion to see them as inferiors. So no brotherhood of men because that implies equality. About hinduists and other "idol worshippers" the Coran asks him to destroy them. After making Mezquita a joint worship place soon enough will have to be "returned" to the "rightfull" owners (and that will be arian visighots ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 After making Mezquita a joint worship place soon enough will have to be "returned" to the "rightfull" owners (and that will be arian visighots ) Would you please explain this? I am lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 (edited) After making Mezquita a joint worship place soon enough will have to be "returned" to the "rightfull" owners (and that will be arian visighots ) Would you please explain this? I am lost. The Mezquita was formerly a mosque, then we Catholics got it back. However Kosmo jokingly hopes that it will go back to the Arian Visigoths, who owned the area before the Moors. Edited January 3, 2007 by FLavius Valerius Constantinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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