Poisons and poisoners

[Pertinax]

I am working on some notes regarding the use of poisons in Roman Society (and the Ancient World in general).

I seem to have found a suggested "apex" for such activity during the Julio-Claudian time frame , with emphasis on vegetable poisons . henbane , datura , nightshade and aconite (monkshood). The halide salts of mercury and antimony were known as toxic vapours, but mineral and animal poisons seem to be rarely mentioned (save as to snake venom).

 

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=854

 

Canidia appears to be the most famous of female poisoners , using hemlock in honey as "weapon of choice".Claudius is suggested to have taken aconite in mushrooms as the cause of his death.

 

THis post is to provoke members to mention any related references to the topic-I am especially keen to hear of references to the use of mineral poisons in antiquity.

 

More information to follow when the dread Festal season is done!

 

Here is Pliny in outre mode on the wild weasel (and the antidote to its venom)!

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext...Ahead%3D%232152

 

and again on honey tainted with aconite:

 

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext...Ahead%3D%231357

[The Augusta]

I have despatched Laslo, my Nubian, over with my recipe book, Pertinax.

 

Sorry - I couldn't resist it.

[Pertinax]

I have despatched Laslo, my Nubian, over with my recipe book, Pertinax.

 

Sorry - I couldn't resist it.

 

Hmm, figs off the menu again this week I see. :stretcher:

 

More Betony in my wine this week then:

 

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...si&img=1476

 

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext...Ahead%3D%231790

[caldrail]

Interesting. Poison seems to be an important factor in the ancient world. I understand that the Sardinians astonished the romans with their liberal use of it. Apparently when dad got too old to work the farm his kids asked him to do the decent thing.

[Pantagathus]

Claudius is suggested to have taken aconite in mushrooms as the cause of his death.

"Thereupon, Agrippina, who had long decided on the crime and eagerly grasped at the opportunity thus offered, and did not lack instruments, deliberated on the nature of the poison to be used. The deed would be betrayed by one that was sudden and instantaneous, while if she chose a slow and lingering poison, there was a fear that Claudius, when near his end, might, on detecting the treachery, return to his love for his son. She decided on some rare compound which might derange his mind and delay death..." - Tacitus, 12.66

 

So the only thing is, aconite wasn't really rare as a poison? However, it is likely that aconite was used to finish the job:

"Under pretence of helping the emperor's efforts to vomit, this man, (Xenophon the physician) it is supposed, introduced into his throat a feather smeared with some rapid poison; for he knew that the greatest crimes are perilous in their inception, but well rewarded after their consummation. - Tacitus, 12.67

 

Of course Suetonius' account is slightly different but whatever was initially in the mushrooms didn't work.

 

Anyway, you are right Pertinax, it is very hard to pin down specifics on what poisons were used. When it comes to animal poisons, I've seen Pliny talk about salamanders & 'bramble' frogs...

[Primus Pilus]

Clearly this is much early than the Julio-Claudian subject matter at hand, but I thought I'd mention the Mithridates story.

 

Two different accounts mentioning Mithridates famed tolerance to poison.

 

From Appian's Roman History

Mithridates then took out some poison that he always carried next to his sword, and mixed it. There two of his daughters, who were still girls growing up together, named Mithridates and Nyssa, who had been betrothed to the kings of [Ptolemaic] Egypt and of Cyprus, asked him to let them have some of the poison first, and insisted strenuously and prevented him from drinking it until they had taken some and swallowed it. The drug took effect on them at once; but upon Mithridates, although he walked around rapidly to hasten its action, it had no effect, because he had accustomed himself to other drugs by continually trying them as a means of protection against poisoners. These are still called the Mithridatic drugs.

 

From Dio Cassius Book 37; 13

Mithridates had tried to make away with himself, and after first removing his wives and remaining children by poison, he had swallowed all that was left; yet neither by that means nor by the sword was he able to perish by his own hands. For the poison, although deadly, did not prevail over him, since he had inured his constitution to it, taking precautionary antidotes in large doses every day; and the force of the sword blow was lessened on account of the weakness of his hand, caused by his age and present misfortunes, and as a result of taking the poison, whatever it was. When, therefore, he failed to take his life through his own efforts and seemed to linger beyond the proper time, those whom he had sent against his son fell upon him and hastened his end with their swords and spears. Thus Mithridates, who had experienced the most varied and remarkable fortune, had not even an ordinary end to his life. For he desired to die, albeit unwillingly, and though eager to kill himself was unable to do so; but partly by poison and partly by the sword he was at once self-slain and murdered by his foes.

 

Celsus in De Medicina, mentions Mithridates' formula in detail (book 5; 23),

But the most famous antidote is that of Mithridates, which that king is said to have taken daily and by it to have rendered his body safe against danger from poison. It contains costmary 1

[Pantagathus]

The Mithridates account is a great one; I never knew Celsus got so detailed about the famous antidote!

 

The statement in Appian that "he walked around rapidly to hasten its action" makes me wonder if this would have been common practice in regards to many poisons or if it was particular to hemlock as we read in Plato (Phaedo):

 

Thereupon Crito nodded to the boy who was standing near. The boy went out and stayed a long time, then came back with the man who was to administer the poison, which he brought with him in a cup ready for use. And when Socrates saw him, he said:

[Primus Pilus]

The Mithridates account is a great one; I never knew Celsus got so detailed about the famous antidote!

 

Yes, I suppose Celsus has always been overshadowed by both Galen and Pliny. I've been browsing De Medicina since finding the Mithridates piece and. am finding it quite interesting.

[Pantagathus]

Yes, I suppose Celsus has always been overshadowed by both Galen and Pliny.

 

And yet, he's one of Pliny's sources! I think I'm going to start 'browsing' it more too...

[Pertinax]

Interesting posts, thank you all. I was looking hard at the Mithraditic recipe to see if I could nail down any particularly active antidote or to discern the methodology of prevention:

 

-to generalise I detect

 

1. an intention to cleanse the body very deeply and to make sure that the gut wall is not permeable (hence less susceptible to more direct poisoning ie: like counteracting modern gut aggresors of mercury, flourine, ibuprofen and cannabaciae): the hypericum, gum, storax(tolu balsam) and frankincence/myrrh would do very nicely as healing menstrum and antifungal agents .

 

2 Some other additives are to purge directly:the iris would be a potent poison in its own right , the carrot and rhubarb likewise would be emetic. A resistance to the Orris Root (iris) would build over time .

 

3.I detect also constituents designed to provoke heavy bile output , gentian foremost of course but the cinnamon would be very useful.

 

4. quite a bit of anti tumour activity , the saffron being the foremost.

 

One thing for sure , the King had no intestinal parasites on this combo (either protozoal or helminths) hence he would have had a very robust digestion and an ability to ward off any low level poisoning with ease.

 

and ps: a small blog entry for a not quite so drastic tonic:

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?automo...;blogid=19&

 

Io Saturnalia!

[Pantagathus]

Ok Pertinax,

 

I found an animal poison for you in John Bostock' comments on the 'Sea Hare' in Pliny:

 

"Beckmann reckons the Aplysia depilans (with which the Sea-hare of the ancients is identified) in the number of the animal poisons, and remarks that (as we find stated by C

[Pertinax]

Excellent find, another red algae victim (remember the hallucinating pelicans?):

 

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?automo...;blogid=19&

http://museum.gov.ns.ca/poison/redtide.htm

so the crafty animals abstract the toxins from the algae.

[Lost_Warrior]

How does one know that pelicans are hallucinating?

 

What about pufferfish? Was it known in Rome? (it's supposedly great to eat, but one slip of the knife and it's deadly)

[caldrail]

We will never know all the poisons the romans used. Caligula's 'Columbinum' for instance was certainly effective (having been tested on the unfortunate gladiator columbus) but it was his own formula. What on earth was in it?

 

I also wonder if some deaths attributed to poison were nothing more than heart attacks brought on by all the reasons we get lectured about today?

[Pantagathus]

Pertinax,

 

Looking at the title of your thread, I now assume you are aware of the book by C.J.S. Thompson, Poisons and Poisoners; With historical accounts of some famous mysteries in ancient and modern times published in the 30's?

 

Interestingly enough, according to Thompson, the Egyptians at an early period figured out how to extract the powerful poison (prussic acid/cyanide) from peach pits and that it was cyanide that Nero used to dispatch Britanicus.