Philhellene Posted December 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Not "accident" but "criminal negligence", I think, is the concept you're looking for. And how fitting that Caesar and the Christians--who together more than anyone made way for the collapse of classical civilization--should have destroyed the Library as well. That it was an "accident" in both cases is even worse: the bastards didn't even know what they were doing. By the way, when I was reading Malchus, I found out that anothet big library was burnt at the same time (I mean Vth C). It was Βασιλικα in Constantinople that consisted of 120 000 books. It happened during the fire in the city under the reign of Basiliscus (Malchus apud Zonaras, book XIII, I don`t know the exact chapter or page, my Zonaras doesn`t have it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rameses the Great Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Didn't Coptic Christians carry out a wholesale slaughter of Egyptian pagan priests?Wasn't that why no one could read hieroglyphs until the rosetta stone? Segestan you have to remember that the Christians of the era were in a slugmatch with the established world! It was a world that they saw as unholy. Therefore they had no time for philosophers (who they believed were being led astray by Satan) and their assertions that the world was round No, where did you get that crazy information from? Many Egyptians were converting to Christianity but were never forced. The only forced conversions that happened in Egypt were by the Romans. One of the saints is known for opposing the Romans forced conversion and beeing martyred for it. The only things Coptic Christians did was destroy any heiroglyphs and symbols thought 'blasphemic.' No Coptic Christians killed pagan priests though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philhellene Posted December 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 (edited) I don`t agree. The Christians and Pagans killed each other during the public disorders in IV C, see for instance Rufinus, HE, II, 22. It was under the reign of Theodosius, in Alexandria. I can retell this fragment if you don`t have it. Edited December 18, 2006 by Philhellene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rameses the Great Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 I don`t agree. The Christians and Pagans killed each other during the public disorders in IV C, see for instance Rufinus, HE, II, 22. It was under the reign of Theodosius, in Alexandria. I can retell this fragment if you don`t have it. I'm not saying they did not kill each other, but no Coptic Christians went on a slaughtering rampage of pagans. In Alexandria there were so many mass murders such as the Jewish story of killing all those Christians. One night they tricked the Coptic Christians that there was a sermon to attend, and in the mask of night slaughtered thousands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 I'm not saying they did not kill each other, but no Coptic Christians went on a slaughtering rampage of pagans. What about Hypatia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rameses the Great Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 What about Hypatia? So, what about her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEGYPTUS Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 (edited) Is there not evidence to suggest that there was Christians and Pagan communities in conflict through out the world at the time. Back on topic is it possible that the Christian Egyptians destroyed the remaining scrolls in the library long after the fire that destroyed much of it in earlier times? As they may have seen it as a Pagan literature. It is possible as you have already mentioned the destruction of hieroglyphs throughout Egypt! Edited December 19, 2006 by AEGYPTUS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Clodius Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 I have to disagree with Attempting to blame the Christians for the burning of Rome without historical merit. No one's arguing that the Christians burned Rome. They intolerantly drove out the pagan religion, sucked up the resources of the empire to build worthless new churches and monasteries, and much later burned heretics at the stake while they were busy reminding everyone of what holy martyrs they were, BUT they were absolutely innocent of burning Rome itself. The burning assumption of the Library of Alexandria having burned by a bishop of the faith, by whomever or reading things into documents that need not apply, is also without historical merit. ...The library was destroyed during the Reduction of Egypt , AD 638-640 by the [islamic] invaders. Then how do you explain the evidence that Philhellene cited? And if the Christians were so eager to preserve higher learning, how do you explain the Christian mob that tore the philosopher Hypatia to pieces? To me, those Christians sound like carbon copies of today's Taliban. Agreed, this is onething me and Cato will always see eye to eye on! If it wasn't for dogma drunk monks there would probably be no lost books of Livy and Polybius, et al.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philhellene Posted December 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 <i>So, what about her?</i> Socrates says that she was killed by Petrus and his men because she had incited Alexandrian prefect Orestus against their bishop Cyril, but Cyril and Alexandrian church felt sorry about that murder (VII, 15); as for Philostorgius, he says that "she was torn in pieces by the Homoousian party (το ομοουσιον πρεσβευοντων)" (VIII, 9); according to John of Nikiu "multitude of believers in God arose under the guidance of Peter the magistrate" caught Hypatia, because she "had beguiled Orestus through her magic" and "he ceased attending church as had been his custom", Christians "brought her to the great church named Caesarion", then "they tare off her clothing and dragged her through the streets of the city till she died" (LXXXIV, 100-102). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philhellene Posted December 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 If it wasn't for dogma drunk monks there would probably be no lost books of Livy and Polybius, et al.. The same monks copied books of Livy and Polybius and kept them in thier libraries. Antique literature was destroyed not by Christians but by wars. Do you know about great Belgrad library that was completely burnt during the German bombing in 1940? I don`t know much about Dresden, but I think its libraries were burnt as well as Belgrad one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladius Hispaniensis Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 (edited) The story of Caliph Umar's or any other Muslim's destroying the Library at Alexandria is a total fabricated legend. Please refer to the following sources: http://www.answers.com/topic/library-of-alexandria http://elyclarifies.blogspot.com/2006/01/b...ia-library.html http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm#omar http://ehistory.osu.edu/world/articles/ArticleView.cfm?AID=9 It's hard to believe people still believe this pernicious and gratuitous pile of manure to be historical fact. Do your homework before posting nonsense on a mature historical website Edited January 14, 2007 by Gladius xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 The story of Caliph Umar's or any other Muslim's destroying the Library at Alexandria is a total fabricated legend. Please refer to the following sources:http://www.answers.com/topic/library-of-alexandria http://elyclarifies.blogspot.com/2006/01/b...ia-library.html http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm#omar http://ehistory.osu.edu/world/articles/ArticleView.cfm?AID=9 It's hard to believe people still believe this pernicious and gratuitous pile of manure to be historical fact. Do your homework before posting nonsense on a mature historical website Whoa, slow down. Not everyone will have the correct knowledge or perception, which is why we have other members to correct it like Phihillene. In fact, some people are taught/learn differently...so let's not get too frustrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladius Hispaniensis Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 The story of Caliph Umar's or any other Muslim's destroying the Library at Alexandria is a total fabricated legend. Please refer to the following sources: http://www.answers.com/topic/library-of-alexandria http://elyclarifies.blogspot.com/2006/01/b...ia-library.html http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm#omar http://ehistory.osu.edu/world/articles/ArticleView.cfm?AID=9 It's hard to believe people still believe this pernicious and gratuitous pile of manure to be historical fact. Do your homework before posting nonsense on a mature historical website Whoa, slow down. Not everyone will have the correct knowledge or perception, which is why we have other members to correct it like Phihillene. In fact, some people are taught/learn differently...so let's not get too frustrated. Ave Flavius I was actually pointing that posting not at Philhellene but at the other fellow that was trying to propagate the "Omar burnt the Alexandria Library" myth earlier in the thread. I agree not all of us are taught in the same way, but it seems incredible to me that in 2007, with research literally at the tips of our fingers, one can still propagate a pernicious anti Muslim myth that has been laid to rest by Christian (not Muslim) scholars. To me this is an indication of either intellectual laziness - where a person is simply unwilling to do the requisite research, or of deliberate slander mongering which is inexcusable in an age where different communities across the world are trying to reach out to and understand each other. Either way it is reprehensible. One thing that attracted me to this forum was the sober quality of the material being discussed here, and I don't think this forum should be used as a sounding board for anyone wanting to mouth off his personal prejudices. Regards, Gladius xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rameses the Great Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 Ave FlaviusI was actually pointing that posting not at Philhellene but at the other fellow that was trying to propagate the "Omar burnt the Alexandria Library" myth earlier in the thread. I agree not all of us are taught in the same way, but it seems incredible to me that in 2007, with research literally at the tips of our fingers, one can still propagate a pernicious anti Muslim myth that has been laid to rest by Christian (not Muslim) scholars. To me this is an indication of either intellectual laziness - where a person is simply unwilling to do the requisite research, or of deliberate slander mongering which is inexcusable in an age where different communities across the world are trying to reach out to and understand each other. Either way it is reprehensible. One thing that attracted me to this forum was the sober quality of the material being discussed here, and I don't think this forum should be used as a sounding board for anyone wanting to mouth off his personal prejudices. Regards, Gladius xx Gladius, what motive would anyone else have for burning the library? If the entire library was burned included all the books, then I have a hard time thinking the entire situation was an accident. The Muslims usually did burn a lot of things that have no correlation to their religion. They were strict and had many reasons for the burning for the library. By the way, it is not a myth it has recently sparked new research. Whether it is a true theory or not, we don't know but it is certainly respected to more then just anti-Muslims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladius Hispaniensis Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 (edited) what motive would anyone else have for burning the library? The same motive that the Muslims would have had - to destroy anything that would go contrary to their faith. Are you seriously suggesting that Christians did not burn "heretical" books and works that did not confirm with their faith? By the way, it is not a myth it has recently sparked new research. So let's see some links and other sources about this "new research". And just because research has been revived regarding a certain myth does not necessarily mean that myth has been proved as historical fact Whether it is a true theory or not, we don't know but it is certainly respected to more then just anti-Muslims. Oh yes we do. Did you even bother reading the links that I quoted earlier? Edited January 16, 2007 by Gladius xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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