Julian The Apostate

[AEGYPTUS]

Julainus The Apostate(Flavius Claudius Julianus) III Ruler in Constantine's dynasty

 

After Constantine the Greats conversion to Christianity I would have thought Paganism would have died away relatively fast. Christianity was winning that battle of the faiths at the time. Yet Julian The Apostate continued to secretly worship the old gods. He received a Christian education/upbrining and was a travelling philosopher with little ambition until he was elevated to the rank of Caesar of the West .So I am at a loss as to why he switched back to the Old God's of the antiquity. Julian was the last ruler to follow this faith (Paganism). Constantine backed the winning religion Christianity. Even if Julian thought Zeus had given him a divine mission to re-convert the populous of the Roman World. Being an intellectual and a visionary and learning from those who came before him he should know where to put a fine line between the achievable and the unachievable.

 

He had Temples re opened across the Empire. He tried to get Pagans to adopt the same infrastructure as the Christian Church with Monasteries, Convents, Schools and orphanages etc This was in order to combat the opposing religion more effectively. He also made a lot of Anti-Christian legislation to try and hamper the Religions expansion.

From what Julian experienced at his capital Antioch he should have known Paganism star was descending into obscurity. At Daphne a rich and prosperous suburb of the capital the great festival to Apollo was held annually. Julian went to the Temple only to find it empty. When he asked the high Priest what was being sacrificed to the god he said he had brought a goose from his home but the city was yet to offer anything to the deity. This surely would have illustrated that Julian was entering a losing battle. So my question is why did he persist to try and paganise a world whose views on this form of worship had clearly changed to the opposite side of the spectrum e.g. Monotheism? It seems to me to be slightly obsessive to me!!

 

Sorry I am not sure if I have posted this in the right place should it have gone in Templum Romae? I thought I would ask. I thought i should post here as Julian is in that sort of time frame latter Roman Period.

 

Any insight would be much appreciated

 

Thanks

AEGYPTUS

Edited December 9, 2006 by AEGYPTUS

[Maladict]

Julian was always a pagan at heart, he merely had to keep up the pretense until he became emperor. Why he tried to 'undo' Christianity, something he could not realistically have expected to pull off, I don't know, but it made him one of the most intriguing emperors.

 

If you'd like to know more, I can highly recommend Gore Vidal's "Julian", a novel but very well researched.

[Ursus]

He tried to stem the tide of Christianity on two fronts:

1)banishing the Christians from teaching the classics, which would have left them on the cultural fringes

2) making paganism more like Christianity on a theological, administrative and charitable level

 

I think it might have worked if his policies had had more time to take hold. I'm just as glad it didn't .... I cringe when I picture a "pagan" bishop extolling his flock to hand out alms to the poor. It's just not paganism.

 

I did a short review for an excellent book on Julian, which others may find of interest: http://www.unrv.com/book-review/last-pagan.php

 

As a mod's note, I am moving this from post-Roman history to the imperial subfolder. Julian was still well within imperial Roman history and thus doesn't deserve to be on the post-Roman folder.

[AEGYPTUS]

I think it might have worked if his policies had had more time to take hold.

 

Still why so persistent. He had no male heir to pass on his religous beliefs to. To later enforce his ideals on the Empire once Julian was no longer around, so why bother?

Edited December 12, 2006 by AEGYPTUS

[caldrail]

Julian did not like christianity. Although it had once been an amorphous group of cultists it had by then become a rival government. Not one that sought political power, but controlled the public nonetheless. Unlike Constantine, who needed this cohesion to repair the damage of his civil war, Julian regarded this as an undesirable influence over his realm, paricularly since he was a confirmed pagan and disliked christian beliefs. I wonder also if Julian had in mind to be remembered as a god like emperors of old - impossible under christian beliefs. Also you should remember that christianity was not then a charitable institution. I've mentioned this before, but a fourth century roman stated that - "Make me a bishop of Rome and I'll be a christian tomorrow". He said this because the early bishops were wealthy - and in typical roman fashion - they were wealthy by extracting cash from their parishioners. I don't know if Julian wanted that cash for himself or if he thought it was impious for these holy men to commit ursury, but I don't think the bishops wealth endeared them to Julian.

 

Having said all this, there is always the possibility that an unrecorded personal event occurred that made Julian despise christianity.

[Ursus]

 

 

I think it might have worked if his policies had had more time to take hold.

 

Still why so persistent. He had no male heir to pass on his religous beliefs to. To later enfore his ideals on the Empire once Julian was no longer around so why bother?

 

 

He didn't like Christianity for whatever reason and wanted to do as much damage to it as possible while he drew breath. I think if he had lived longer his policies would have done quite a bit of damage.

 

But don't you think if he had survived the Persian expedition he would have appointed and groomed an heir? There were still plenty of pagan sympathizers at this point, especially among the intellectual class.

[M. Porcius Cato]

There were still plenty of pagan sympathizers at this point, especially among the intellectual class.

 

Were there? What makes you say so?

[Maladict]

I think one of the causes of his failure was that he did not intent to restore the old religion, but introduce a kind of Neoplatonism he had developed himself, something the people undoutedly had a hard time understanding.

Edited December 10, 2006 by Maladict

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

I suppose it had to do with his early education and forced identity, basically Constantius II and his Christian Arianism was too darn intolerant of past institutions of scholarship, art, history, and any pre-Christian was pagan, which was unacceptable. So Julian probably learned to hate what he was forced to learn when he valued the past. If Christianity was not so intolerant, Julian might as well would have turned philosopher-Christian.

[Honorius]

slightly off topic .. but was Julian ever married? or betrothed?

Edited December 11, 2006 by Honorius

[Maladict]

slightly off topic .. but was Julian ever married? or betrothed?

 

He was married to Helena (Constantius' sister).

[Honorius]

oh..anything happen to her after the death of julian? or did she jsut get packed of to a nunnery?

Edited December 12, 2006 by Honorius

[Maladict]

oh..anything happen to her after the death of julian? or did she jsut get packed of to a nunnery?

 

He outlived her; she was buried in the still intact mausoleum next to Sta Constanza in Rome.

[Pantagathus]

Still why so persistent. He had no male heir to pass on his religous beliefs to. To later enforce his ideals on the Empire once Julian was no longer around, so why bother?

His father was murdered during the massacre of the Flavian family and he was only spared his life after the death of Constantine because of his youth. Then, he was reared under grievous scrutiny by nominal Christians...

 

I think this would more than likely lead me to reject Christianity as well. Once he was won over to Neoplatonic paganism by Maxiumus, the wheels were obviously in motion. It doesn't matter if anyone judges his near sighted drive to inflict damage on Christianity as rash and irrational.

[AEGYPTUS]

Well I thought it was important for a ruler to share or atleast be tolerant to the most fastly growing faith at the time thats all.