how far could a pilum be thrown?

[Vibius Tiberius Costa]

i was curious on this matter, ive read an extract of a book suggesting a pilum could be thown about 100

metres, i considered this and considering a pilum is thrown at about a 60 degree angle it seems to be impractical. any clues?

[Lost_Warrior]

The absolute best angle of trajectory for any thrown or launched object (be it pillum, modern day javalin, slingshot, etc.) is 45 degrees. I have never thrown a pillum myself so I do not know at which angle it's actually being thrown or how it is done, however if it were thrown at a 60 degree angle it would shorten the distance that it can be thrown by quite a bit.

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

According to my notes, a pilum had a maximum range of approximately 30 yds (27 meters).

You would also have to throw it pretty dang hard to get it to go that far, too.

 

Go measure out 100 meters and see if anyone can throw a 4 foot weighted javalin that far!

[Vibius Tiberius Costa]

The absolute best angle of trajectory for any thrown or launched object (be it pillum, modern day javalin, slingshot, etc.) is 45 degrees. I have never thrown a pillum myself so I do not know at which angle it's actually being thrown or how it is done, however if it were thrown at a 60 degree angle it would shorten the distance that it can be thrown by quite a bit.

 

A pilum was thrownat 60 degrees so it could come down on the enemy from almost vertical, that way a man would have to raise his shield very high, and the weight of the pilum would be accentuated by gravity, this slowed an attacking wave and killed many more. you are right about 45 degrees but the pilum comes in front on so many more would of survived.

 

According to my notes, a pilum had a maximum range of approximately 30 yds (27 meters).

You would also have to throw it pretty dang hard to get it to go that far, too.

 

Go measure out 100 meters and see if anyone can throw a 4 foot weighted javalin that far!

 

I thought as much. it seems a long way to throw considering olympic throwers reach 80 metres

The book i read it in is usually very correct so thank you for proving this wrong.

 

I did measure out 100 metres and got a 3kilo weight to throw and i could onlly get it 30metres

[M. Porcius Cato]

Olympic javelins aren't weighted, but weren't pila? Not that I think any mere mortal could toss one at a 60-degree angle for 100 meters. That's from tryline to tryline on a rugby field (or about end zone to end zone on an American football field).

[Vibius Tiberius Costa]

Olympic javelins aren't weighted, but weren't pila? Not that I think any mere mortal could toss one at a 60-degree angle for 100 meters. That's from tryline to tryline on a rugby field (or about end zone to end zone on an American football field).

 

youre sort of right, 1 of the pila was wieghted the other wasnt before the empire after i dont know

[caldrail]

The trajectory for a pilum would be flatter than an olympic javelin. They weren't throwing them for distance, they were throwing them to hurt people or disarm them. Now its true the romans relied on the mass effect of dozens if not hundreds of these things in the air. However, a pilum might glance off a shield if it arrives at too steep an angle. Pointless (pun intended!). To penetrate the shield an angle closer to 90 deg was preferable for maximum penetration. (90 deg is of course only possible for tens of feet so an angle of around 30 might be better.

[DecimusCaesar]

I always considered it odd that the Romans, (especially of the first century AD) threw their pilum while holding the large and often heavy scutum. Then again, if the enemy were firing arrows or other missiles it was probably best to have it at hand.

 

I watched a documentary where Roman weaponry were tested by modern day soldiers, police officers and firemen. The re-enactors, who were kitted out in Roman clothing, armour and weapons; found it very difficult to hit targets with the pilum, even at rather close ranges. Many of them said that carrying the scutum was no help. I wonder how restrictive the armour and shield was to throwing the pila accurately. Then again the Romans must have been drilled to over come these obstacles.

[Pertinax]

I did throw the javelin when younger,(considerably younger) and from that experience I suggest an accuracy within only 30 yards (for a javelin)so I agree with VTC on this . Having held a scutum I venture to suggest that the throwing action is seriously modified by the left arm and torso being prevented from full rotation, hence a flatter trajectory would be more comfortable-segmentata does not seriously impede torso rotation at all. Perhaps the context of the weapon as used in mass (and with multiple discharge) is a more important factor?

[caldrail]

Didn't julius caesar once face a barrage of pompey's pila? If I remember right (and I might be wrong here) he avoided the lot or took them on his shield, looked thoroughly invincible, and inspired his tired men to charge. Pharsalus?

[Pertinax]

Didn't julius caesar once face a barrage of pompey's pila? If I remember right (and I might be wrong here) he avoided the lot or took them on his shield, looked thoroughly invincible, and inspired his tired men to charge. Pharsalus?

 

If the divine Julius also had greaves on his leg he would have been a hard target to hit-in terms of exposed flesh :

 

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=950

 

heres a "target profile" without greaves, if an agressed formation holds steady you would have to search for an opening.

[CiceroD]

Perhaps the context of the weapon as used in mass (and with multiple discharge) is a more important factor?

 

precisely this is much like the poor accuracy of the Old Brown Bess musket in the 1700's.

 

Who cares about accuracy when there's a thousand of your boys firing,throwing at the same time.

Edited December 15, 2006 by CiceroD

[M. Scaevola]

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=950

 

heres a "target profile" without greaves, if an agressed formation holds steady you would have to search for an opening.

 

That's why pila were better employed in a counter charge situation. And, perhaps that is why the roman civil war battles were slaughters - with the issue being decided by the glaudius and its higher kill rates.

[ModernMarvel]

It depended on what they wanted to accomplish with it. For cavalry, it'd be better to throw straight, maybe at the horses. For Infantry, I think a 2 prong attack would work best. one unit throw at a steep angle, to come down high, then a second unit throw straight, to take advantage of the raised shields. Just a thought.

 

 

Marvel

[caldrail]

One thing to note about pre-musket warfare is the unwillingness of soldiers to deliberately harm horses. To some extent thats because of their size and weight - in a battle situation getting too close to a horse generally means you bounce off painfully. They were also expensive commodities which could be captured and used by your own troops. The ability of the ancient world to rear horses was limited and nowhere near the situation we see in the napoleonic era for instance.

 

In the old days when hastati threw javelins or whatever then indiscriminate fire was commonplace. The tactical use of a pila however is to disarm the enemy, either by rendering his shield useless or by injuring him (hopefully fatally). This is an important advantage because without a shield your enemy is exposed. This was particularly true of barbarians who often fought bare chested.