Theoretical Improvements in Legionary Equipment

[CiceroD]

H. Warner Munn's Book The Lost Legion is hardly the sort of book one looks for accurate details.

 

On the contrary Its a work of Fantasy.

 

But the first chapter dealt with an informer convincing Caligula that this 13th Legion posed a serious threat.

He did this by showing the "superiority" of their equipment.

 

For Instance

 

1) all 13th legionaries had some training in archery and sling(ery)(ing).

 

2) 13th legionary bowstrings were the thinnest possible. (allows them to recovery and use enemy arrows but not visa versa)

 

3) Their scarves had a leather pouch to allow it to be used as a sling. ( they also had two thongs for the same purpose secreted about their armor.)

 

4) The highest segment of their lorica was brought up into a collar that protected the neck.

 

5) Their shields contained three throwing knives. It also had a sharpened upper edge. (allowing a possible decapitating strike when brought beneath someone's chin)

 

6) Caltrops were also secreted within their armor.

 

7) the Gladii were longer by a few inches. (centurion's length according to Munn)

 

8) Finally their helmets included "spring steel" to protect the danger areas of the temples and the forehead from frontal impact.

 

Were any of these ideas practical? Would they be good ideas? If so why didn' t the Romans come up with any of them?

 

What do you guys think?

[M. Porcius Cato]

Why the heck would you hide caltrops in your armor? Sounds awfully impractical (and painful!). Have you ever seen a caltrop? It's meant to a stop a horse (or a tank)--it's not something you want to have between your armor and your fleshy bits, that's for sure.

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

H. Warner Munn's Book The Lost Legion is hardly the sort of book one looks for accurate details.

 

On the contrary Its a work of Fantasy.

 

But the first chapter dealt with an informer convincing Caligula that this 13th Legion posed a serious threat.

He did this by showing the "superiority" of their equipment.

 

For Instance

 

5) Their shields contained three throwing knives. It also had a sharpened upper edge. (allowing a possible decapitating strike when brought beneath someone's chin)

 

6) Caltrops were also secreted within their armor.

 

 

8) Finally their helmets included "spring steel" to protect the danger areas of the temples and the forehead from frontal impact.

 

Were any of these ideas practical? Would they be good ideas? If so why didn' t the Romans come up with any of them?

 

What do you guys think?

 

Just googled caltrops...wow, they must be Lacedaimonians-reborn if they could stand that kind of torture, almost medieval like.

As for the shields, those addendums seem unnecesary.

And what is a spring metal?

[caldrail]

1) all 13th legionaries had some training in archery and sling(ery)(ing).

 

Excellent idea. Typical of local initiative but I wonder if the men were a bit dubious. After all, they weren't equipped with such weapons (were they?) and surely such things were the preserve of auxillaries? Maybe, maybe not. Its more likely it would have been done to keep the men busy at camp.

 

2) 13th legionary bowstrings were the thinnest possible. (allows them to recovery and use enemy arrows but not visa versa)

 

I'm no expert on archery but I'm dubious about this claim. Just a gut feeling really.

 

3) Their scarves had a leather pouch to allow it to be used as a sling. ( they also had two thongs for the same purpose secreted about their armor.)

 

Extraordinary! Makes the 13th legion roman ninjas doesn't it? If this was true, then it indicates some very clever and forward thinking. However, I don't know how practical it is to employ a sling whilst wearing full legionary armour and equipment. This might be another case of a good idea that wouldn't work too well in practice.

 

4) The highest segment of their lorica was brought up into a collar that protected the neck.

 

Another example of local development that may or may not improve on the design of armour. It wasn't used by other legions nor did the 13th legion persist with it did they? Perhaps it was uncomfortable or even unnecessary.

 

5) Their shields contained three throwing knives. It also had a sharpened upper edge. (allowing a possible decapitating strike when brought beneath someone's chin)

 

Ho ho ho. The knives perhaps, but if you start sharpening shield edges you run into all kinds of problems. An upward stroke of a heavy shield isn't going to deliver much power. Largely pointless. The shield is better employed as a 'punching' weapon.

 

6) Caltrops were also secreted within their armor.

 

This just beggars belief. Sorry - I don't believe it. Caltrops are nasty little things and not something you want on your person if you're engaged in strenuous physical activity. Like fighting, for instance. No, I don't believe this.

 

7) the Gladii were longer by a few inches. (centurion's length according to Munn)

 

Quite possible although against the general trend of the time.

 

8) Finally their helmets included "spring steel" to protect the danger areas of the temples and the forehead from frontal impact.

 

How exactly was this spring steel used? Roman helmets follow a similar design that was well tested. The forehead was already protected by the helmet with a strong forward facing ridge that prevented enemy swords from sliding down across the face. Making a helmet with spring steel isn't really going to help the wearer much and I suspect the author doesn't really understand what spring steel is.

[CiceroD]

I honestly have no Idea what this spring steel is. I didnt even know that thr Romans had springs.

 

but Im not surprised about the impracticality of some of these ideas

Mr. Munn was a fantasy writer and, consequently, gave a legion in the time of Caligula a pre-marian organization eg hastati principes and triarii

 

Caldrail yes they did have their auxillaries and even a large number of Balearic slingers

 

but he does tip his hat to Roman Inginuity. he states that the only 13th equipment that was standard was the pilum because it couldnt be improved upon.

 

Anyway, How large were roman caltrops? how were they used?

 

I know they said it was kept in a leather pouch on their back.

[caldrail]

Spring steel is a material that resists bending in a way that returns it to its former shape after deflection. There isn't any great advantage in using such material for helmets. Spanish swords were of this type of material. It was said that the test of such a sword was to bend the blade over ones head and have it touch the shoulders. It would spring back straight. Actually the quality of steel would vary according to circumstance and skill of the forger so don't think all spanish swords could do this.

 

Caltrops (for those who don't know) are an early form of anti-personnel device. Its a multi-spiked weight that will pierce the foot if trodden on. The size is probably something that would fit within your fist comfortably, and it was employed by placing in the path of enemy travel. You could throw them in the path if you wished. Indeed, you could even even employ them as hand thrown missiles.

[Pertinax]

Here is a shot I posted of some "homemade" perimiter defence caltrops, of a very basic design.

 

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=958

[DecimusCaesar]

all 13th legionaries had some training in archery and sling(ery)(ing).

 

This sounds like a good idea, yet it wasn't until the Later Roman Era that archery practice became common. The reformed armies after Diocletain made much more use of archers and missile troops than the first century legions had done during Caligula's day. Ammianus Marcellinus describes battles of his own time usually beginning with a long exchange of missiles between two armies; whether it was arrows, plumbatae or spears. The early era legions did make some use of missile Auxillaries, such as Syrian Archers and Balaeric Slingers.

[CiceroD]

Well those seem to be really different from the 'Star Thistle' variety of caltrops that one thinks about.

 

Im surprised one doesnt hear more about the tactical use of these things that could devastate a calvary charge.