CiceroD Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 We all know about lictors and their fasces. Its also known that their principal job was to act as a bodyguard to whomever they were assigned. what I'd like to know is were they armed with anything more useful than their rods ? Was that taboo within city limits? Furthermore what set the (seemingly) arbitrary number of lictors assigned to the magistrates? ie 12 for a Consul 2 for an Aedile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochus of Seleucia Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 (edited) Each lictor had an axe with their fasces. They represented the power (imperium) over life and death in the city that banned weapons. Consuls had twelve; the dictator had all twenty four- they were a bodygaurd and signified power and rank. Edited November 30, 2006 by Antiochus of Seleucia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiceroD Posted November 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I thought that the axe was removed from the Fasces within the city Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caesar CXXXVII Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 At first there were less than 12 lictors for the Consuls (in the 6th and 5th centuries - only 1 Lictor) . The notion that the 12 Lictors represented the 12 citys of the "Etruscan League" is not accepted anymore . Why the number was raised from 1 to 2/3/4 to 12 is not know (maybe someone know's why ?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I thought that the axe was removed from the Fasces within the city I've gone back over a couple of things in an effort to shed light on this issue and I can't seem to come accross any definitive statement one way or the other. I've only found definitive statements about dress in regards to the sagum being replaced by the toga while in the city (no suprise there). It's my perception judging by some of their duties (even while in the city) that the axe remained with them. However, like I said, I can't find anything yet to support that assertion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 "In the Republic only dictators were allowed to carry axes in Rome, and so the fasces was normally a bundle of rods carried on the left shoulders of the lictors. " -- _Handbook to Life in Ancient Rome__ Adkins and Adkins The axe was a symbol of the magistrate's power of life and death, and was thus suitable only for foreigners (outside the city) or during times of extreme duress when a dictator was in office. During times of peace, the axe would have threatened a citizen's liberty and citizen's right to appeal to a Roman magistrate. As for the number 12 .... I can't find anything concrete. 12 seems to be an archetypical number among the Ancients, though. 12 signs of the Zodiac, 12 gods of Olympus, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Thanks for the joggle Ursus. I was thinking the Lictors retained the securis because they would carry out executions. However, I now see that Cicero informed us that when P. Valerius Publicola gave the people the right of provocatio after the expulsion of the Tarquins, the secures were indeed to be removed from the fasces while in the city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiceroD Posted November 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I would think that carrying a great big bundle of sticks on one's left shoulder would hamper bodyguard activity wouldn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Paulinus Maximus Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 At first there were less than 12 lictors for the Consuls (in the 6th and 5th centuries - only 1 Lictor) . The notion that the 12 Lictors represented the 12 citys of the "Etruscan League" is not accepted anymore . Why the number was raised from 1 to 2/3/4 to 12 is not know (maybe someone know's why ?) According to Wikipedia there were 30 lictors in total, 24 for the consuls (12 each) and 6 for the sole praetor. Lictors were associated with the Comitia Curiata and probably originally one was selected from each curia, since originally there were 30 curiae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Warrior Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 12 bodyguards with you at all times? Wouldn't that get...you know, annoying after a while? I guess Roman aristocrats didn't care much about the practicality of their status symbols. This seems to contrast strongly with the classical Roman attitudes of practicality and logic. (One or two bodyguards, I can see. But 12??) Were there any cases of the Lictors becoming corrupted and actually "doing in" their master? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 12 bodyguards with you at all times? Wouldn't that get...you know, annoying after a while? Roman's ardency for the decorum of tradition always superceded their practicality. That being said, the Lictors weren't with them at all times: "They were the outward mark of authority: they were not sent for on special occasions, but attended the magistrate like his shadow: if he is at home, they are in his vestibule (Liv. xxxix. 2); if he goes to the rostra, they precede him (Liv. xxiii. 23); when he takes his seat on the tribunal, they stand by him (Cic. Cluent. 53,147); when he pays a visit, the lictor knocks for his admission (Liv. vi. 34; Mart. viii. 66; Juv. iii. 128)." Also: "The magistrate must, however, dismiss his lictors when he enters the territory of an allied independent state. And lastly, the Consuls would have their 12 Lictors only every other day apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiceroD Posted December 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Yes you are right to say that decorum preceded practicality to the Romans, but if malcontents come after a consul with gladii in hand what could the Lictors do? Remember that they were armed with an unwieldly bundle of sticks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Yes you are right to say that decorum preceded practicality to the Romans, but if malcontents come after a consul with gladii in hand what could the Lictors do? Remember that they were armed with an unwieldly bundle of sticks! I think at least the Lictor Proximus had a bacillum for scourging folks that could have proven helpful in such a situation. But look at it another way, why don't any of us recall that being an issue...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldrail Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 I don't think the lictors were bodyguards as such. They represented roman authority and acted in its name, as a sort of policeman or government official. His office gave him certain power which must have acted as a deterrent on behaviour. If the gentleman wanted protection then he'd hire a gladiator or two, or surround himselve with friends or slaves. If someone made an attack in front of a lictor I doubt it would be long before a short trial and public execution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiceroD Posted December 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 OHHH Ok So they were more symbols then anything else I See I wonder how heavy the fasces is? Apparently it was considered a good job right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.