Unpatriotic Bast....

[Virgil61]

I'm just wondering what age you or anyone else think that patriotism should be taught to kids in school? Is the Pledge of Allegiance not a good tool?

 

I'm an army brat as well Spurius. Frankly I think we've dropped the ball (in the United States) big-time when it comes to teaching civics at school. In a country whose constitutional basis was founded on Locke and other enlightment writers one must teach those writers to its constituents.

 

Civics ought to be taught from 1st to 12th grade (is it anymore?). Not flag-waving patriotism, but the nuts and bolts of the US system and the responsibilities of every citizen. The Federalist Papers (who's read that here I wonder) should be required reading for high schoolers. My .02.

[M. Porcius Cato]

I agree wholeheartedly with Virgil. Instead of a 5-minute daily recitation of the pledge, just spend 25 minutes once per week talking about baby civics, including the basic mechanics and logic behind the operation of the government.

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

I agree wholeheartedly with Virgil. Instead of a 5-minute daily recitation of the pledge, just spend 25 minutes once per week talking about baby civics, including the basic mechanics and logic behind the operation of the government.

 

Well, I believe Virgil's method is correct, but really not appliable due to the complexity of the government and major antipathy in extremely dull students. One example is testing on the basics of government (from my own experience):

 

Hmm... the system/law is that each high school students must retake the Constitution test. However, due to the stupidity or lack there of eduction in most students, many fail miserably except those in AP US classes. But then again, lots of teachers sort of help their students pass/"cheat" by giving the questions on the tests away, by means, all of them.

 

Or they basically lower the standards to a degradizing point.

Edited November 14, 2006 by FLavius Valerius Constantinus

[Marcus Caelius]

Well, I believe Virgil's method is correct, but really not appliable due to the complexity of the government and major antipathy in extremely dull students.

 

Political science is less technical and complicated than computer science, and "extremely dull students" are only one part of the bell curve. Anyway, we're not even talking political science, we're talking 10-minute videos entitled "Johnny Meets His Senator" in the classroom, once a week.

 

And antipathy and dullness are not inherently connected.

 

(10 minutes later: Here is a not-unrelated item.)

Edited November 14, 2006 by Marcus Caelius

[Divi Filius]

You say the oath everyday?

 

In American Public Schools all students must daily stand, place the hand on their heart and sing the pledge of allegiance. The whole thing is done in such a monotone and uniform way that the memory of the recitation among the various Americans here must not differentiate much...

 

During the early elementary school years I remember having an ethusiasm for it. In my schools they made us stand for the Pledge and then on every friday we had to sing the national anthem.

 

As I headed into the high school years and into the individualist, anti-comformist years I remember many around me sitting down during the whole thing, or mocking it.The city started enforcing it more after the Iraq war started.

 

You wont face it much after public education.

 

I didnt think anything of it when I first moved to the US from Albania.

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

-But that's just it; after highschool you never say it again.

[Ursus]

And really, what's the point? American school kids can't vote, can't fight in wars, and aren't fully employed tax payers. Of what real worth is any sort of oath of loyalty from them?

 

When someone turns 18, before they pass into full citizenship, perhaps they should swear a formal oath to the Constitution and the rule of law. But let that oath be void of any mention of deity.

 

If private religious groups and private religious schools want their children to swear an oath by their deity of choice, that's entirely up to them.

[M. Porcius Cato]

[(10 minutes later: Here is a not-unrelated item.)

 

Too bad natives aren't required to take the test. Call me elitist, but I'd rather share citizenship with those who understand and appreciate the constitution than with natives whose only claim to citizenship is the location of their birth.

[P.Clodius]

The Federalist Papers (who's read that here I wonder) should be required reading for high schoolers. My .02.

Numbers 10 and 51 played a key role in the formulation of a centralized gvmt if I remember correctly. And me a mere immigrant!

[M. Porcius Cato]

And for those who haven't read them yet, please do:

Federalist 10

Federalist 51

Edited November 23, 2006 by M. Porcius Cato

[Marcus Caelius]

Numbers 10 and 51 played a key role in the formulation of a centralized gvmt if I remember correctly. And me a mere immigrant!

 

I'm an immigration officer. Trust me (I'm from the Government), there's no such thing as a "mere" immigrant.

[M. Porcius Cato]

There's no such thing as a "mere" immigrant.

 

Hear, hear!!