Gaul

[M. Porcius Cato]

As for the Celts of Gaul, their agricultural technology is often said to have been ahead of that of the Romans

 

Evidence?

[spittle]

2000BC Egypt. Technological, agricultural (virtually anything) masters of the planet.

2000bc Gaul. Men with sticks.

 

50BC Egypt. An Egyptian dark age. Past its prime. Much of its secrets forgotten. Under the domination of Greece (monarchy/cultural) and Rome (actual power/cultural)

50BC Gaul. Forming coallitions of tribes that NEARLY prevented Roman domination.

 

To me the original post to this thread is like saying:

"Did America dominate the known world?"

 

If we are talking about 1755 the answer is 'No'. But if we are talking about 1995 the answer is 'Yes'.

 

So, again, what era of history are we looking at when we compare Egypt to Gaul?

 

 

As for the Gauls having agricultural technology that was ahead of that of the Romans....Didn't the Romans introduce aqueducts to the province for irrigation?

[caldrail]

a few coincidences due to agrarian economies and low technology.

 

Egypt? Low technology? I can asure you even the Romans and Greeks were astounded by the technology of Egypt.

 

I meant what I said. The ability to organise farmers in workgangs raising massive pyramids has nothing to do with digging ditches and harvesting grain. Most primitive societies can manage something like that. Did egypt organise its farmers in a state-run enterprise to provide grain? No, it didn't. It was the collective effort of individual farmers like every other society.

[Andrew Dalby]

As for the Gauls having agricultural technology that was ahead of that of the Romans....Didn't the Romans introduce aqueducts to the province for irrigation?

 

Yes and no. Yes they introduced aqueducts, but not for irrigation. Roman aqueducts were to provide water supplies to cities. So it's not agricultural technology.

 

Meanwhile Cato asks for "evidence". Hmm. It's a long time ago that I learned this -- it's a matter of ploughs and maybe carts, both of them very important features of agricultural technology at the period we're talking about. And it's surely one of the things that Caesar doesn't mention. The evidence is archaeological. Now, where to track it down? I think I first read it in

 

K. D. White, /Agricultural implements of the Roman world/.

 

But I don't have the book. I'm visiting some libraries next week so I will try to track the evidence down again for you! It's serious information ...

 

 

I bow to your knowledge, of course, Andrew. nothing more to add.

 

Phil

 

Well, no one's ever said that to me before! Certainly Mrs Dalby never has ...

[Kosmo]

Egypt had a highly developed agriculture based on an old tradition and seriously improved by hellenistic rulers that used the Museion as research center for new irrigation devices that lifted water. Also they introduced new crops. This agriculture was based on mediterranean models and products and had to face limitations in fertile soil and water.

 

Gauls lived in a temperate wet climate with an abundence of rich fertile soil and had no need for irrigation. They needed axes and saws for deforestation, heavy ploughs with a iron knife and some more efficient way to transfer animal force to the plough. This is the base for european agriculture and it's not specific to Gaul.

From Late Iron Age until the XVII century this was hardly changed depending on few elements like availabilty of iron tools and the gradual increased use of horse power as new stronger breeds and harnasses were developed.

Horticulture was the only area with an earlier improvement thanks to the dutch.The most important late development was the introduction of new plant and animal species.

In the time of Augustus the level of Gaul was the same with other areas from the rest of Europe with comparable climate.

[caldrail]

True, but remember that north africa had a better climate two thousand years ago (still arid, just a little less so). It wasn't for nothing that north africa was the most heavily urbanised area of the roman empire.

[edgewaters]

I certainly don't think Gaul was the "Egypt of the West", but, just a few points on the technological argument ...

 

Celtic culture was technologically innovative - but an entirely different line of technological development from anything produced by the Meditteranean cultures. Celtic technological innovation had a narrow focus on metallurgy and metal implements, and achieved a great many firsts some of which are with us today - belt buckles, chainmail, soap, saws, files, and many implements in iron for the first time rather than bronze (chisels, rims for wheels, scythes, ploughs, etc). A study of the Norici and the role of Noricum in the empire is highly instructive as to this sort of innovation and skill.

 

The Meditteranean cultures had a much broader focus of technological development. Principally, they were way ahead in engineering, social institutions, agriculture, science, art, and mechanics. This allowed them to leap ahead in shipbuilding, fortification, construction, infrastructure, and so forth. These things were not easily adopted by groups that weren't part of the Meditteranean sphere of development, whereas, what innovations that the Celts did have were easily copied or traded for. It was nothing for the Greeks or Etruscans or Phoenicians to get a saw or file and have their own smiths imitate it, or even just hire or enslave some foreign smiths.

[Bryaxis Hecatee]

I think that the main agricultural improvement of which the original poster thought were two devices invented in northern Gaul : the neck yoke ( http://www.humanist.de/rome/rts/neck.html ) and the Treviri harvester.

 

Both were described by Pliny and are represented on many stones engravings but were not commonly used outside of the area where they were invented.

 

For a complete documentation I recommend you to look for Pr. G. Raepsaet works for he is the world expert on both of those devices on which he spent a lifetime ( he'll be retreated by the end of this year ).

 

His studies are not only theorical but also practical and those have proved the validity of his theories. There is even a video showing him harvesting some fields using a reconstructed treveri harvester and a neck yoke with his donkey Marius, hilarious video for those who know him like his students