Jupiter, Sol Invictus and the decline of the old gods

[DecimusCaesar]

I was reading recently about the reforms made by Diocletian. In terms of religion, Diocletian tried to bring back attention towards the old gods, the ones that they had adopted from the Greek Pantheon (Jupiter, Juno, Mars etc) yet he failed.

 

Why was it that the cult of the undefeated Sun God (a mixture of the Syrian god El Gabal, Mithras and Sol) had taken such a hold on the people? Why did the old gods that the Romans had worshipped for centuries fall out of favour among the people to such an extent that Diocletian found it hard to resurrect intrest?

 

Why the constant change in religion? After all, before the Romans had adopted the Greek Pantheon, thay had worshipped the spirits of their ancestors. They later worshipped Sol Invictus, who made way for the Christian God.

Does this mean that there was a constant change in Roman Paganism, with newer ideas and gods becoming dominant over the old ones? Or did the old ideas never actually disappear in pagan times, did they just become less relevant than the new ones?

[Lost_Warrior]

I think that the old ideas never actually disappeared. They *evolved* into new ideas, and some became less prominent, but they never truely disappeared (obviously, as some of us still worship the old gods and follow the old ways today)

[Ursus]

Aurelian instituted the cult of Sol Invictus, and it existed more in tandem to the cult of Jupiter than as a replacement for it. In the tradition of Augustus, most shrewd emperors knew how to introduce new cults without officially replacing older ones. Aurelian, in fact, most often associated himself with Jupiter before finding Sol Invictus.

 

Diocletian's religious policies have to be understood in light of the politics of the times. The Crisis of the Third Century made ruling circles keenly aware of how fragile the empire really was. It was thought that religious comformity would reunite the empire culturally and return the favor of the gods from a troubled time. This was especially poignant since Caracalla had proclaimed near universal Roman citizenship, making the Roman gods the gods of everyone, in effect.

 

If certain Greco-Oriental cults were gaining in popularity over more traditional Roman ones, it was because those Eastern gods offered more: a better afterlife, mystical union with a deity, a clear moral code and cosmology, colorful rites and rituals, etc. In the private religious life of the people (as distinct from the state run cults) it seems the common person honored a variety of deities and spirits, new and old.

[Aurelianus]

I would have to say that all religions fall out of favour at some point, or are shoved to the side, changing situations bring new and differant desires, along with new gods they hope will fufil them. The old gods of rome were very formal, and their worship was very formal, to compliment the formal dignity of the political situation. Rome rarely had any dire national situations, so the domestic Lars were suficiant to appease the populances civil worries.

 

With the fragmenting and barbarian incursions people found themselves in more volatile situations, they want to have a deity who offers them securaty, and protection from more major dangers. The cold formal and distant Jupiter didnt reasure the people, so they will enevitably turn to other options. An all powerfull sun god presents a prety good candidate.

 

People, (and in history espesialy the uneducated) always seek to explain what they cannot, and protect them from what they cannot protect themselves. That is probably why there are so many aethiests in todays society - science explains alot of things, and the rest they dont care about, leaving no need/place for a god(s).

[DecimusCaesar]

Thanks for the answers every one!

 

Diocletian's religious policies have to be understood in light of the politics of the times. The Crisis of the Third Century made ruling circles keenly aware of how fragile the empire really was. It was thought that religious comformity would reunite the empire culturally and return the favor of the gods from a troubled time. This was especially poignant since Caracalla had proclaimed near universal Roman citizenship, making the Roman gods the gods of everyone, in effect.

 

Thanks Ursus!

It's exactly the same reason why Constantine tried to get Christianity more popular. Religion as a way of uniting the people. I didn't realise that it went further than Constantine's reign, but now that I look at it again I don't know why I didn't realise that the first time. Thanks again.

[M. Porcius Cato]

If certain Greco-Oriental cults were gaining in popularity over more traditional Roman ones, it was because those Eastern gods offered more: a better afterlife, mystical union with a deity, a clear moral code and cosmology, colorful rites and rituals, etc.

 

I'm not sure it's as simple as that. Presumably, what a religion offers is important, but that has to be weighed against what the religion demands. A religion that celebrates chastity, loving your enemies, self-flagellation and offers up a list of prohibitions on everything fun and educational doesn't strike me as such a bargain--even if it does offer lifetime pass through the Pearly Gates and a colorful ceremony.

 

Also, I'd guess that many of the benefits of various religions are firmly terrestrial--good business connections, opportunities for advancement, affiliations with the hoi polloi, etc. As the center of wealth and commerce shifts East, so will the center of religion.

 

Just my two sestercii.

[Aurelianus]

I'm not sure it's as simple as that. Presumably, what a religion offers is important, but that has to be weighed against what the religion demands. A religion that celebrates chastity, loving your enemies, self-flagellation and offers up a list of prohibitions on everything fun and educational doesn't strike me as such a bargain--even if it does offer lifetime pass through the Pearly Gates and a colorful ceremony.

 

lol, id quite agree with you, just remember that to the poor deluded souls would have had it presented in a much better light, I imagin the average preacher would have avoided mentioning his religeon's phobia of all things beautifull and fun. im sure that in the beginning it wasnt even like that... or maby not. Also many people probably felt their life couldnt get anyworse anyway, so the only hope was an afterlife; but from my point of veiw that dosent have much to recomend it either. I dont consider pot plants and cold food to be my thing. Meekness a virtue!

[DecimusCaesar]

I believe that Constantine managed to 'convert' some of the lowly senators and officials to Christianity with the promises of higher ranks and better pay. With more important figures converting to the religion others felt the need to 'jump on the bandwagon' in order to get better earthly benefits.

 

As for the poor, the promise of eternal bliss after a lifetime spent toilling would have been enough to convert some of the people. After all the religion had been rather popular among the common people living in the east for quite some time.

[Aurelianus]

Umm.. "bliss"? dosent sound much like bliss to me.

Edited November 3, 2006 by Aurelianus