Another Pompeii Restoration

[Ludovicus]

From the Philadelphia Inquirer, 10/27/06:

 

 

"POMPEII, Italy - It was the jewel of Pompeii's libertines: a brothel, decorated with frescoes of erotic figures, believed to be the most popular in the ancient Roman city.

 

The Lupanare - from the Latin lupa, or prostitute - was presented to the public again yesterday after a yearlong, $253,000 restoration to clean its frescoes and fix the structure."

 

 

For the entire article:

 

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/nation/15858914.htm

[Andrew Dalby]

From the Philadelphia Inquirer, 10/27/06:

 

 

"POMPEII, Italy - It was the jewel of Pompeii's libertines: a brothel, decorated with frescoes of erotic figures, believed to be the most popular in the ancient Roman city.

 

The Lupanare - from the Latin lupa, or prostitute - was presented to the public again yesterday after a yearlong, $253,000 restoration to clean its frescoes and fix the structure."

 

 

For the entire article:

 

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/nation/15858914.htm

 

The beds look a bit hard. I hope there were cushions.

[Viggen]

I like the Discovery headline much better

 

Steamy Pompeii Brothel Opens for Tourism

[phil25]

It's been open for years, and most of the hype surrounding it's restoration is questionable.

 

For instance, I have seen it suggested that the small paintings of sexual positions over each door indicated the "speciality" of the girl within. This is an old hypothesis that, in practical terms is almost impossible. Far more likely, that they were simply there to enflame the passions of customers waiting to be serviced.

 

Far more interesting is the fact that the beds, in addition to being "hard" - they are solid concrete - are only about four and a half to five feet in length.

 

Thus the "missionary position" would have been impossible to perform. How and why the women performed is an interesting question, to which I have yet to see a practical answer.

 

As with Roman toilets, the sheer smallness of the cells and the whole establishment indicates that the Romans had a very different approach to privacy and intimacy and to the natural functions to those which westerners have today.

 

Phil

[Andrew Dalby]

It's been open for years, and most of the hype surrounding it's restoration is questionable.

 

For instance, I have seen it suggested that the small paintings of sexual positions over each door indicated the "speciality" of the girl within. This is an old hypothesis that, in practical terms is almost impossible. Far more likely, that they were simply there to enflame the passions of customers waiting to be serviced.

 

Far more interesting is the fact that the beds, in addition to being "hard" - they are solid concrete - are only about four and a half to five feet in length.

 

Thus the "missionary position" would have been impossible to perform. How and why the women performed is an interesting question, to which I have yet to see a practical answer.

 

As with Roman toilets, the sheer smallness of the cells and the whole establishment indicates that the Romans had a very different approach to privacy and intimacy and to the natural functions to those which westerners have today.

 

Phil

 

I'm not qualified by experience to comment on all those points, Phil. However, whatever can be done in the back seat of a car could probably be done in one of those alcoves. I know I originally commented on their hardness, but I should add that it's also true of the garden triclinia of Pompeii and Herculaneum -- they are also in stone or concrete -- and in all cases we just have to add to our mental image the cushions etc. that natives would have used to make themselves comfortable.

 

As for your first sentence, you're quite right, obviously. The pictures were probably rather standard (like a good deal of the other wall painting at Pompeii). In my opinion you don't pay an original artist to invent designs for your brothel walls; your decorator gets the pictures out of a pattern book and copies them as best he can (not very well, usually).

[phil25]

We know they used thick mattresses on triclinia couches and in the brothels, but I think one writer once observed that the cells in the pompeii establishment seem designed for "promiscuous dwarves"!!

 

While the back seat of a car may be the acme of erotic opulence for some, I'd just say that it doesn't allow the full variety of possibilities. neither does the brothel. I have always had a nagging suspicion that that should lead us to a profound conclusion about Roman life, but I can never quite grasp what it is. sad, eh?

 

Interestingly, I have never yet seen a surviving example of a Roman double bed. A fair few bed frames have surived in Pompeii and Herculaneum. All are single.

 

In the front upstairs room of the House of the Wooden Frame in Herculaneum, there are two beds (carbonised) which have their heads abutting at right angles - both are single.

 

Phil

[Pertinax]

Interesting, so do we suspect that couples of "reasonable" status eschewed a "marital couch" as a bourgeoise affectation? Trimalchio gets some (more) social "stick" for his tacit indication (his awareness of her snoring) that he actually slept with his wife. Do we have a similar position to , say. Victorian society where 1. the poor sleep where they can for warmth ( possibly in rural societies adjacent to or over the animals) 2,persons of "quality" sleep singly and avoid mixing nuptial fervour with the blessing of rest?

The Brothel at Pompeii is certainly a small space, it doesnt suggest that customers would have an extended dalliance.

AD has a review of "Dining Posture " in the pipeline , perhaps we will garner clues from this work,

[phil25]

The room with the two beds at Herculaneum would have allowed a couple to hear each other snoring!! They would just have been in twin beds.

 

Personally, I doubt that the sleeping habits of Romans was a "class" thing. Perhaps more a practical one - the comfort in a relatively hot climate of personal space? Custom?

 

The house I referred to, while on a main street, was not a high-class home, I think.

 

One of my points re the brothel is that one would perhaps expect "beds" of various sizes to accommodate people of differing heights, and for different positions (something "experts2 seem to accept given THEIR interpretation of the little vignettes over each door.

 

One possibility is that Roman taste was for "positions" that did not require the couple to recline full lengtrh - so kneeling, feet on floor etc would be entirely practical.

 

I hope I am not being distasteful here, or too explicit for younger posters, but as i have said, I think there are as yet unseen insights into Roman life to be gained here.

 

Phil

[The Augusta]

It's been open for years, and most of the hype surrounding it's restoration is questionable.

 

I'll say! I first visited 'The Pleasure House' at Pompeii in 1979!

 

 

I hope I am not being distasteful here, or too explicit for younger posters...

Phil

 

I wouldn't say distasteful, Phil - but I would say 'unimaginative'!

[phil25]

Oh,believe me, Augusta, there's nothing wrong with my imagination!!

 

It is just as though the Romans (or at least the Pompeiians) debilerately and completely closed down a range of options, I find that strange.

 

in the modern equivalent, wouldn't you find it odd if the only beds provided were four feet long?? (Not that I have ever visited such a place or think you have, Augusta!!)

 

Phil

[Andrew Dalby]

Oh,believe me, Augusta, there's nothing wrong with my imagination!!

 

It is just as though the Romans (or at least the Pompeiians) debilerately and completely closed down a range of options, I find that strange.

 

in the modern equivalent, wouldn't you find it odd if the only beds provided were four feet long?? (Not that I have ever visited such a place or think you have, Augusta!!)

 

Phil

 

Well, all right, but we've seen news footage of raids on brothels not that far from home in which young women from poor countries are being kept against their will. A modern form of slavery for prostitution, just like the Roman version except that slavery is now against the law. Those places don't look comfortable. The beds are longer, there are doors, but nobody bothers to put pictures on the walls.

 

As for the question of "separate beds" (and separate bedrooms) it's a cultural thing. Look how it tends to vary in hotel rooms from one country to another and one star to two. Why, if you visited "Trimalchio's house" in some parts of England, you might have to face a guided tour including the bedrooms (unlike Encolpius), and the configuration of beds and bedrooms that you would see would depend on the class, aspirations and wealth of your hosts.

[phil25]

I am obviously failing to make my point here. But never mind.

 

Phil

[Andrew Dalby]

I am obviously failing to make my point here. But never mind.

 

Phil

 

Yes, that's true, Phil! I don't see that the distinctions between Roman attitudes and ours, in this area of sexuality, are as clear-cut as you seem to be saying.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Wasn't the average height of a Roman legionary only about 5 feet tall anyway? A four foot bed doesn't seem like such an obstacle to me. Taller patrons could presumably get a temporary bench to extend the length of the bed if they were so inclined (to recline).

[Pertinax]

Not to mince about then, wasnt the most valued sexual encounter (in terms of sexual dominance vis a vis the idea of "submissive effeminacy/masculine (Roman) virility) therefore that of oral sexual encounter, and secondly the feminine partner in a "superior" (physical) position?

 

I leave this short and sweet, as we can probably incorporate other necro threads relating to sexual mores (same sex relationships in the ancient world is the most obvious) within "antique" civilisations in relation to gender politics...

 

Haver away!