What Was The First 'civilisation'?

[spittle]

To attempt to study civilisation from its very beginnings where would you start?

[longbow]

I think i would start with the first people to have a written language,was it the Sumerians of Mesopotamia who had the first written form?

Good luck with this monumental task,sounds like a lifetimes work .

[DecimusCaesar]

I'd go with Sumerians too, they were the first civilisation as far as we know, with Egypt and India and perhaps China following afterwards.

[longbow]

Which Civilisation had the wheel first?

[Germanicus]

Where did farming first begin ?

[longbow]

The general consensus is that Farming began 10,000 years ago in an area called the fertile crescent (Iraq,Syria,Jordan),they grew Emmer wheat for making Bread.

[DecimusCaesar]

The Sumerians did make use of battle carts in warfare, which acted as primitive chariots. The only problem with them was that they could not turn as the wheels were not spoked and the chariot cab itself was too solid and inflexible. I have read in several books that the wheel was invented in Ancient Sumeria, but then again it might be much older than this, I'm not sure. The Egyptians did not have the wheel to build the Pyramids...neither did the Ancient Britons have them to build Stonehenge.

[Rameses the Great]

With the Ancient Egyptians, because they did start civilization as Sumeria did at the same time. If you want to start it on the Middle East go with Sumeria. If you want to go with the influence of the world go with Egypt. (Not the entire world, the Middle East, Greece, Asia, Kush.)

Edited October 19, 2006 by Rameses the Great

[spittle]

I seem to have opened a can of worms!

 

How does one define 'civilisation'?

 

In my mind I'm thinking of written language (but the Duids passeddown knowledge verbally and they were civilised so whats to say that an older civilisation, now completely forgotten, didn't have a similar method?). I'm also thinking of funeral ceremonies (belief in an afterlife/primitive religion) and architecture/monuments (an attempt for immortality by leaving evidense of their culture - similar to the Egyptian pyramids).

 

Using these guidelines is Sumer still the opinion of the forum?

If so what historical date are we talking about?

[Andrew Dalby]

I seem to have opened a can of worms!

 

How does one define 'civilisation'?

 

In my mind I'm thinking of written language (but the Duids passeddown knowledge verbally and they were civilised so whats to say that an older civilisation, now completely forgotten, didn't have a similar method?). I'm also thinking of funeral ceremonies (belief in an afterlife/primitive religion) and architecture/monuments (an attempt for immortality by leaving evidense of their culture - similar to the Egyptian pyramids).

 

Using these guidelines is Sumer still the opinion of the forum?

If so what historical date are we talking about?

 

Especially since you are considering a range of indicators, you'll accept that there might be more than one answer. Humans invented 'civilisation' more than once. As others have already said, Sumer and Egypt are two very early focuses (about 3500 to 3000 BC); a little later, the Indus valley; later still, the Yangtse valley; later still, Mexico.

 

But if 'living in towns' is an indicator, then you can go back several millennia earlier, with southern Turkey (about 6000 BC), Palestine, Syria and Iraq offering you evidence.

 

If 'agriculture' is an indicator, then earlier still. This also has been invented more than once, but (as someone already said) the Fertile Crescent, around 9000 to 8000 BC, is the place to start looking.

 

Finally, the swathe of territory from the lower Nile to the lower Tigris and Euphrates -- Egypt, Palestine, Syria, southeastern Anatolia, Iraq, southwestern Iran -- will be where most of the very early evidence is found.

[Pantagathus]

But if 'living in towns' is an indicator, then you can go back several millennia earlier, with southern Turkey (about 6000 BC), Palestine, Syria and Iraq offering you evidence.

 

Mesolithic Meggido (Palestine) & Neolithic Catal Huyuk (Turkey) were the fist things that came to mind when considering the initial question of the thread.

 

But I want to add another for consideration because of artistic expression & signs of organized religion: Paleolithic Magdelenian Culture in Iberia & France...

[WotWotius]

Where did farming first begin ?

 

Sites dating from around c.13,000-10,500 y.a. indicate that in the Near East, there was a manipulation of wild wheat, barley and lentils, which in turn formed domesticated varieties. Pastoral farming began in this area around c.10,000-9,000 y.a. when wild sheep and pig herds were managed into a domesticated form.

 

In Europe, both pastoral and arable farming spread to the Balkans around c.9000 y.a.; this subsequently spread to Central Europe c.7000 y.a., which in turn reach Britain c.6300 y.a.

 

Other key farming dates are as follows:

c.10,000 y.a. - Farming of squash in Mexico.

c.9000-8,500 y.a. - Millet and rice farming in China.

c.8000 y.a. - Farming and animal domestication in the Indus valley.

c.6000 y.a. - Yams are cultivated in New Guinea, which subsequently spreads to South East Asia.

c.5600 y.a. - Farming of maize and beans in Mexico.

c.5000 y.a. - Farming of potatoes in the Andes; sunflower and goosefoot in North America.

 

This is in fact a very generalised overview, but these are roughly the agreed dates.

[phil25]

With the Ancient Egyptians, because they did start civilization as Sumeria did at the same time.

 

Ramses, what is your source or basis for that statement?

 

I always worry about the pat Sumerian, or European answers, in that I wonder whether they are too western-centric.

 

Can we be absolutely certain that China did not evolve earlier, or maybe some of the mezo-American cultures?

 

It's not my field at all, but I seem to recall a great deal of DNA work being done on the basis of man's evolution and something about seven "Eves" - where did these womn originate and does that give us any clues?

 

Where was wheat first grown and used for bread?

 

I have no answers, only questions.

 

Phil

[Julius Ratus]

Why do people keep on worrying about when wheat was used for bread? I ask, when were barley and hops first made into beer? That's true civilization!

 

Now on a serious note. I would put my vote for the Sumerians, because to the best of our knollege they seem to have had cities, wheels, fire, bread, and even beer first. Also, i consider the written record to be one of the halmarks of civilization.

 

As far as a Chinese or Mesoamerican candidate, since the Chinese have known how to write for a long time, a closer examination of their earliest writings would give us a better idea as to which one of them (Sumerian or Chinese) came first. Since writing was a later development in the Mesoamerican world, we may never know if they were civilized first, as archaeology is our primary source for them.

[spittle]

What about Mohenjo-Daro (?) a city in todays Pakistan. I have very vague memories of archeaologist's going on about this being the oldest 'city' yet found anywhere.

 

Did I dream this or have others also heard of it?