Hollywood's Spartacus

[spittle]

In the film Spartacus (which I know is almost entirely fictional) he had a British slave as his 'significant other'.

 

Would any Brits of any description actually have been in Rome, or Roman occupied area's, before Caesar had even visited us. Or was it during Claudius' rule, when the island was colonised, that Brits first ended up within the Roman empire?

[Primus Pilus]

In the film Spartacus (which I know is almost entirely fictional) he had a British slave as his 'significant other'.

 

Would any Brits of any description actually have been in Rome, or Roman occupied area's, before Caesar had even visited us. Or was it during Claudius' rule, when the island was colonised, that Brits first ended up within the Roman empire?

 

Caesar took some diplomatic/political hostages, but not mass quantities of slave laborers. With the various disasters that disrupted his fleet, he probably wouldn't have had room for them even if he had captured them.

[longbow]

The only way i can see Rome having Britains as slaves before colonisation is if they purchased them from Gaul.Slaves were taken as spoils by the British tribes maybe the leaders of the winning tribes sold there surpluse to traders from Gaul, who intern sold them on to Roman traders.

[phil25]

Was Jean Simmons character, Varinia, specifically stated to have been British? I had always assumed her to be just another of Batiatus' domestic slaves.

 

"Spartacus" is, in my view, best viewed as an impression of republican Rome, on the verge of the principiate.

 

Olivier's Crassus bears less resemblance to the historical Crassus and more to Sulla, even though the character refers derogatorilly to the latter. Indeed, I think "Crassus" in the film is best seen as an amalgam of all the military adventurers who came to dominate and threaten the republic.

 

In the same way, Laughton's "Gracchus" refers back to the actual Gracchi (actually a generation or more gone) and to other staunch defenders of the republic.

 

In this way, I think the director and writers simply used the story of Spartacus to weave a parable of oppression, imperialism and the quest for freedom - and in ideological terms it is probably as much about Zionism (a common theme of Hollywood films of the time) and McCarthyism.

 

Against that background, whether a woman was a Brit or not seems scarcely important.

 

Phil

[Andrew Dalby]

The only way i can see Rome having Britains as slaves before colonisation is if they purchased them from Gaul.Slaves were taken as spoils by the British tribes maybe the leaders of the winning tribes sold there surpluse to traders from Gaul, who intern sold them on to Roman traders.

 

Yes, this is certainly conceivable. Prosperous slave-owning states tend to steer economically dependent neighbours into slave-raiding and slave-trading, and we know that in just this way the Gauls did sell slaves to Romans in exchange for Italian wine. In addition, Romans thought northerners beautiful, so Britons (and Germans) could have fetched relatively high prices in this trade.

 

Of course, looking at it more practically, it's necessary to commercial film-makers to meet various audiences' preferences half-way (or more). An identifiably British character would have helped the British market.

[WotWotius]

The late First Century BC Geographer, Strabo commented on British slaves in Rome's market places.

[spittle]

Was Jean Simmons character, Varinia, specifically stated to have been British? I had always assumed her to be just another of Batiatus' domestic slaves.

 

Yes. In one of the first conversations she and Spartacus have she tells him she's from Britain.

 

As with Robin Hoods 'Maid Marian' the love interest is a Hollywood essential added for character effect centuries after the events supposedly being portrayed.

[caesardictator]

Olivier's Crassus bears less resemblance to the historical Crassus and more to Sulla, even though the character refers derogatorilly to the latter.

 

Always thought this was interesting - bit off point, but isn't this one of the only times that Sulla is mentioned in any films/TV productions? I seem to remember Richard Harris playing him in a TV film (but I think it was centred on Caesar played by Timothy Dalton). Apart from that, I'm not sure of him turning up anywhere else...?

[Spurius]

The movie you're refering to is this one "Julius Caesar" (2003)?

 

Never saw that one....

 

I think it is one of the few. I don't even remember a Sulla reference in "I, Claudius" - though it's been over a year since I last watched any episode.

[spittle]

Sulla gets a few mentions in HBO's ROME.

 

2 spring to mind.

 

1. After Pullo falls asleep on watch and allows the horses to be stolen Vorenus says:

"My father marched with Sulla and I am reduced to being robbed of my horses by children"

 

2. When Vorenus is arranging the party to launch his business Caesars troops are all over Rome and the caterer says:

"I remember when Sulla took the city! Blood! You could have painted houses with it!"

To which Vorenus replies. "Caesar is not Sulla".

[caldrail]

Was Jean Simmons character, Varinia, specifically stated to have been British? I had always assumed her to be just another of Batiatus' domestic slaves.

 

"Spartacus" is, in my view, best viewed as an impression of republican Rome, on the verge of the principiate.

 

Olivier's Crassus bears less resemblance to the historical Crassus and more to Sulla, even though the character refers derogatorilly to the latter. Indeed, I think "Crassus" in the film is best seen as an amalgam of all the military adventurers who came to dominate and threaten the republic.

 

In the same way, Laughton's "Gracchus" refers back to the actual Gracchi (actually a generation or more gone) and to other staunch defenders of the republic.

 

In this way, I think the director and writers simply used the story of Spartacus to weave a parable of oppression, imperialism and the quest for freedom - and in ideological terms it is probably as much about Zionism (a common theme of Hollywood films of the time) and McCarthyism.

 

Against that background, whether a woman was a Brit or not seems scarcely important.

 

Phil

 

 

Yes, Varinia is aked by Crassus where she came from and she replies 'britannia'. She was a bit hesitant - I think Laurence Olivier nearly caught her out with an ad-lib. Kirk Douglas had read Howard Fasts novel about Spartacus and was inspired to make the film, portraying the rebel as a noble prisoner struggling for freedom and honour. Laughtons character is named Gracchus for convenience - it was a suitable roman name and in no way should it be considered a historical character. Laurence Olivier was every bit the roman patrician - a fine piece of acting - but the lack-lustre young caesar jars very badly.

 

Of course the real wife of Spartacus (if indeed she existed) was definitely not british. Before the conquest of britain a slave from that area would have been very rare although I accept that sometimes people did get traded on and roman merchants were working in britain long before Claudius arrived.

 

Nor was Spartacus the square jawed hero of the 1960's film. Far from it, he comes across as a quick witted and charismatic rogue. He was an army deserter, a bandit, a slave, a gladiator, a rebel.... But not noble in any way. It was a measure of his ability that he stayed at large for two years - and only when he chose or was forced to fight a pitched battle did he see defeat.

 

Spartacus, for all his faults, really was a courageous man. Although he broke out of the ludus where he was training as a gladiator, he did so not because he was afraid to die, it was because he refused to fight for someones pleasure. When his defeat came, its recorded that he fought hard in a an attempt to reach Crassus and kill him before he was overwhelmed by legionaries. Possibly thats a romantic addition to the tale, but it does fit his character. His greatest faults were greed and nonconformism. He could not adjust to the discipline of the auxilliaries, nor the discipline of the arena. He was either swayed by his own victories or the demands of his men and turned south when he could have escaped north. He chose to raid and pillage rather than fight to freedom. He chose to head for rebellious Sicily where he could take advantage of the unhappy slaves of that region. He was no longer just a bandit, he was now a rebel seeking a base to operate, perhaps even with a longer view to becoming leader of a small state although there's no evidence he ever sought that.

 

Modern mythology has given Spartacus a place he did not deserve. All hollywood films about Rome are somewhat impressionistic rather than realistic portrayals of ancient times. The paying public doesn't know much about Rome and prefers to see it as the monolithic pit of greed, corruption, and mad despotism that results in a more colourful tale. Something against which the hero can justifiably strive.

[spittle]

M J Trow's book 'Spartacus' caught my attention but the Amazon reviews state that the title is quite misleading and, rather than a biography of Spartacus, it is another look at the late republic. One that does not match other books on the era such as Holland's Rubicon. However the review does gives the author credit for even attempting a biography of Spartacus due to the available facts being very scarce.

 

When one considers the mix of escaped slaves, brigands and general outsiders that made up the group under Spartacus full credit must be given to his abilities as a leader of men. Under different circumstances he could have been another Hannibal, Alexander or Caesar. He was obviously more of a leader than a follower, which could explain him deserting the army.

[phil25]

One cannot write a biography of Spartacus because the sources simply do not exist. His story was recorded by the victors. His, and his confederates', side of the story is lost irretrievably.

 

That is why for Howard Fast (and there was another book written in the 50s by a philosopher who committed suicide later, Arthur someone? - can anyone recall his name?) Spartacus was a cypher, a name on to which they could project their own fables of freedom and the rights of men. That is his use.

 

Kirk Douglas, Kubrick and Dalton Trumbo - as I noted earlier - contrived a pro-Zionist panegyric, which met a need to the time. their film continues to be regarded as among the most "literate" and intelligent of 50s/60s epics, not least in its longer form released in recent years.

 

To the Romans, to make a positive film or write a book about Spartacus would surely have been like making a hero out of an escaped murderer, or terrorist. I doubt they would have seen any of the angles which we now seem as so positive or edifying.

 

Phil

[spittle]

In the beginning of the film, when Spartacus is working in the salt quarry and bites a guard who strikes him for helping an exhausted fellow slave, the narration states that he 'dreamed of a time when slavery no longer existed'.

 

Was their any anti-slavery movement anywhere, in thought or deed, prior to the last few centuries?

Or would the slaves of that time have dreamed of owning their own slaves?

[DecimusCaesar]

If a slave was lucky and was well respected by his master he could become a freedman. Some Slaves who recieved little pay could buy themselves out of bondage. It is funny that you mention that slaves would dream of owning their own slaves as in the film the Gladiator trainer, Batiatus tells us, was once a slave and gladiator himself.

 

He chose to raid and pillage rather than fight to freedom. He chose to head for rebellious Sicily where he could take advantage of the unhappy slaves of that region. He was no longer just a bandit, he was now a rebel seeking a base to operate, perhaps even with a longer view to becoming leader of a small state although there's no evidence he ever sought that.

 

I believe that it was the slaves themselves rather than Spartacus who demanded that they turn back from the Alps to continue their pillaging of Italy. The slaves were made up of various groups from different areas, including Gauls and Germans. It was these that broke off from Spartacus's main group and became a seperate gang led by Crixus, a German (who in the film remains friends with Spartacus till the very end). Crixus and his men were ambushed by the legions and destroyed before Spartacus' rebellion came to an end. It does go to show that Spartacus did not have a firm grip on the bands he was leading and therefore those who disagreed with his policies would brake off and form their own groups like Crixus did. Perhaps if Spartacus had not been persuaded by his men to remain in Italy, the slaves would have reached freedom in Gaul. Then again, Rome would not be likely to forgive or forget their enemies.