Could Quintus Sertorius Have Made It?

[CiceroD]

Coming across Plutarch's life of Sertorius I'm surprised Ive never heard of him before.

 

For those whove never heard of him a short bio

 

He was a follower of Marius and Cinna who protested against the killings they perpetrated. When Sulla came back from the war against Mithridates, Sertorius saw the writing on the wall and retreated to Spain. There and in North Africa he fought for over six years. He trained the Spanish Barbarians how to fight as legionaries. They compared him to Hannibal and he certainly was as good as the old Carthaginian. I wont go into details of his exploits. But suffice it to say that he regularly kicked the butt of Metellus Pius (the general sent by Sulla to get him) and he even whipped a young Pompey (rival of Caesar Pompey). When it looked like they would be safe from Sulla he was killed at a dinner by other exiled Romans who resented his rule.

 

My question is if he had continued and had been able to detach Spain from Rome what would of happened?

Any Ideas?

[Primus Pilus]

My question is if he had continued and had been able to detach Spain from Rome what would of happened?

Any Ideas?

 

Spain already was effectively detached from the greater Republic in the years of Sertorius' administration. Even in spite of his continued victories against Metellus and later Pompey, petty ambitions, jealousy and rivalry amongst his supporters, and native Celt-Iberians alike, spelled his demise. It was Sertorius' charismatic leadership alone that held the breakaway coalition together. Had he not been assassinated, my guess is that the reconquest may have taken longer, but Rome never would've conceded.

 

Of course a sustained Sertorian victory over Pompey may have altered the political scene of the period and its aftermath significantly, but I still don't believe Rome ever would've relented regardless of who eventually would've become responsible for reclaiming Hispania.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Sertorius may have been among the best men of his age, but without information about his policial reforms in Spain, it's hard to know whether equals to Sertorius could have been found to continue his successes. IMO, the most optimistic of realistic possibilities would have Spain becoming so Hellenized as to receive Greek rights. Less optimistically (and just as likely), Rome would have treated Spain to the same ending as Corinth and Carthage.

[CiceroD]

I was under the impression that Sertorius was in communication with Sparticus and with Mithridates in Pontus. While I know that Sulla returned from Spain just for the leftovers of the Spartican revolt It does illustrate the kind of legion shuffling that they were doing to deal with different crises. Sertorius was only about fifty when he died he might of had ten god years in him or he could of died like Alexander. As long as he lived he was a sore on Sullan Rome. If he had ten more years he could have done a lot. especially if he had found out and killed the conspirators.

Basically I see the situation like how Hitler lost the Battle of Britain. It was the opening of the second front that doomed the Third Reich. He prevented them from focusing there full attention on Sparticus and Mithridates was ready to renew hostilities too. Im just not sure If Sulla could of maintained a two front war. Remember that Sertorius was a popularis who objected against some of Marius's tactics and was popular. One of the conspirators of his death offered, according to Plutarch, a list of patricians in Rome ready to rise up against Sulla. Even though the list was burned it showed there was discontent in the eternal city. so Sulla was possibly facing invasion from Spain (another Hannibal parallel) invasion of Asia Minor and Greece by Mithridates, and also a post-Spartacan uprising within Italy itself from Popularists.

 

-whew-

 

And yeah ur right Sertorius would have never been able (or willing) to detach Spain from Rome

His aim was to reconquer Rome from Sulla.

[Aurelianus]

While I know that Sulla returned from Spain just for the leftovers of the Spartican revolt

Can i just point out that Sparticus revolted in 73 BC when Sulla was dead.

[CiceroD]

Sorry, mistype I meant Pompey "helped" Crassus with Spartacus

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

Wasn't there a story that Sertorius had a white fawn as a pet that never left his side and it was supposed to give him advice from the gods which always kept him one step ahead of the enemy??

[Julius Ratus]

The white fawn story is typical Plutarch. It is merely a story meant to give us an insight into the character of Sertorius.

 

It seemed like Sertorius was opposed to Sulla, not Rome itself, mone me si erro. Here is another "what if" to the equation. What if, when Sulla died, Sertorius returned Iberia to Rome, and allied to the son-in-law of Cinna and the Nephew of Marius, Caesar. Now this is supposing that Sertorius did not get executed by the Roman government.

[CiceroD]

I agree with you Julius Ratus,

 

The white fawn story does sound like second hand gossip

The other story he lists about plucking a horse's tail out one hair at a time by is also a little bit ridiculous. Supposedly to illustrate the point that strength of an army was less important than planning then patience he had a contest between a guy trying to pull out a tail all at once and another who plucked it out singly.

 

Guess who supposedly won?

 

Ive never worked with horses but I do not believe one would submit tamely to somthing like that

 

On the other point about a possible alliance between Sertorius and Caesar

 

I dont think that Caesar was a major player yet. This would mean that he would be more Sertorius's follower then ally. Then again everything rests on when this Sertorian invasion would occur. Caesar was above all else ambitious. If the years went by with an undefeated Sertorius all other conquests would have to be put on hold. In order to win the same glory he did in Gaul he might go Optimate and try to defeat Sertorius. The if's are many

 

What do you guys think?

[L. Quintus Sertorius]

Sertorius had a good chance of defeating Pompey and Metellus militarily, had he survived. The more important question is whether or not the Iberians would have continued his reforms and continued to singly resist Roman aggression. The answer to this, sadly, is probably not.

 

Also, I'm working on an annotation of Plutarch's Sertorius that I hope to post on here within the next week or so.

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

I don't think he would have made it much longer than he had- lack of money, supplies/equipment, and shortage or renewable men. He did very well for what he had though.

[Kosmo]

That was not a seccesionist but an exiled goverment of Rome. There was no Iberic identity to build on and Sertorius was a Roman (as most of his followers) not an Iberian.

His political goal was not an independendent Hispania (I think the concept did not make sense then) but seizing power in Rome.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Also, I'm working on an annotation of Plutarch's Sertorius that I hope to post on here within the next week or so.

 

Look forward to seeing it. What are your major sources on Sertorius?

[L. Quintus Sertorius]

It's mainly Plutarch, but I added some bits to his account of Arausio and several other battles that I have from my books. If I can find the time today, I'll cite them in the thread.