Hbo Series: Rome

[Ludovicus]

I've just finished watching the first episode of the series: The Stolen Eagle. I nearly jumped out of my seat when I heard the character Titus Pullo mention the word "tabacco," a plant that would only be encountered by Europeans 1,500 years later in the Americas. Has anyone else caught the error? Is there a thread on the HBO series in UNRV?

[spittle]

Ludovicus. He doesn't mention tobacco he says 'smoke there smoke' and, as you'll see in later episodes, is actually refering to opium.

[Ludovicus]

Ludovicus. He doesn't mention tobacco he says 'smoke there smoke' and, as you'll see in later episodes, is actually refering to opium.

 

 

Spittle, how interesting! I watched the episode in Spanish and the word "tabacco' came out of Titus Pullo's mouth. This is clearly an error in the Spanish version and not in the English one.

[miguel]

Spittle, how interesting! I watched the episode in Spanish and the word "tabacco' came out of Titus Pullo's mouth. This is clearly an error in the Spanish version and not in the English one.

 

then perhaps you would like to check out for the English version.

btw where do you get the Spanish one? It sounds interesting to me.

[Ludovicus]

Spittle, how interesting! I watched the episode in Spanish and the word "tabacco' came out of Titus Pullo's mouth. This is clearly an error in the Spanish version and not in the English one.

 

then perhaps you would like to check out for the English version.

btw where do you get the Spanish one? It sounds interesting to me.

 

 

The DVD of episodes 1 & 2 that I rented has three audio choices: English, Spanish, and French. In addition, you can watch the movie with subtitles. Aside from the mistake with "tabacco" the Spanish audio was fine, crystal clear. Se oia sin acento de ningun pais, un castellano bien claro, como se habla en America Central.

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

Se oia sin acento de ningun pais, un castellano bien claro, como se habla en America Central.

 

(Castellano es de Espaňa...)

Edited September 30, 2006 by Antiochus of Seleucia

[Ludovicus]

In some parts of Latin America speakers of Spanish call their language "castellano." In other parts, Spanish speakers call it "espanol." With the tilde over the "n."

 

I rented the DVD from Block Buster Video in Philadelphia, PA, in the USA.

[Pantagathus]

That definitely sounds like a mistake of an ignorant (of historical details) member of the translation staff...

 

Think about it though, if you didn't know any better and you were just told to translate a phrase about 'smoke' from the standpoint of 'smoking', tobacco would surely be the first thing that came to mind.

 

I've seen this kind of mistake made in translations of historical books many times. It's bound to happen if the translater is not as well aquainted with the subject as the original author.

[Pertinax]

Opium is the only "substance abuse" we see in the series (if we are excluding Pullo's wine drinking), henbane being the only other narcotic mentioned in a medical context.If you check my henbane notes on this link you will see how confusion might arise if one were unaware of the history of tobacco.

 

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=220

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=528

 

Poppy notes here:

 

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=393

 

My personal opinion would be that perhaps Datura strammonium would have been a possible "commonplace" alternative as a burnt inhalant-army medics certainly knew of it , and it was a commonplace herb aroud the Med.(pre-Islamic Arabia)

 

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=180

[Plautus]

My personal opinion would be that perhaps Datura strammonium would have been a possible "commonplace" alternative as a burnt inhalant-army medics certainly knew of it , and it was a commonplace herb aroud the Med.f

 

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=180

 

That brings up the issue for me of Pullo's brain surgery. They portray Pullo strapped down and being operated on with no anesthetic. I once read that as early as Alexander, Greek and Persian armies knew about chewing an opium bulb before an operation. Which is correct?

[Pantagathus]

That brings up the issue for me of Pullo's brain surgery. They portray Pullo strapped down and being operated on with no anesthetic. I once read that as early as Alexander, Greek and Persian armies knew about chewing an opium bulb before an operation. Which is correct?

 

Seen as how later after the gladitoral fight, the doctor makes note of giving him henbane, I assume that 'something' was given to him before the skull surgery...

[Pertinax]

My personal opinion would be that perhaps Datura strammonium would have been a possible "commonplace" alternative as a burnt inhalant-army medics certainly knew of it , and it was a commonplace herb aroud the Med.f

 

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=180

 

That brings up the issue for me of Pullo's brain surgery. They portray Pullo strapped down and being operated on with no anesthetic. I once read that as early as Alexander, Greek and Persian armies knew about chewing an opium bulb before an operation. Which is correct?

 

The convention in the HBO scene is that Henbane has been used-the Opium skins are more related to dentistry, my answer would be that a surgeon/dentist would use whatever was appropriate to the monetary capabilities of his client. The Roman "problem" is effective local analgesics, so chewed poppy is acceptable either as a local or general medicine-but the surgeon had better understand where the poppy was from given the severe variation iin chemical effectivness from "Nile Delta to Londinium" (my own rule of thumb). Henbane is commoner and easier to grow, and it is very potent even in a damp climate ( chew too many seeds in Britain and you will die).

My suggestion is that Greek/Eastern armies would have slightly better access to more potent strains of Poppy-Andrew Dalby may well wish to opinionate on my statement.

Datura is a commonplace from N Africa ( as understood in Roman terms).

The HBO compromise seems reasonable, Vorenus is a Plebian but not poor-the Doctor seems well educated, his disquisition on pus from the wound is apposite and the suggested sympathetic sacrifice is reasonable.

 

Post Scriptum: I might amalgamate this with the main HBO "veracity thread" to keep things neat.

[spittle]

The opium available in Roman markets of the time was actually Egyptian. Egyptians were by far the most knowledgable chemists of the ancient world.

[Pantagathus]

Egyptians were by far the most knowledgable chemists of the ancient world.

 

That may be so but one needs a knowledge of horticulture to produce opium, not chemistry

[spittle]

Chemist is misleading. Upto very recent times herbalist's or Apothacary's were the experts and they mixed a knowledge of horticulture with a knowledge of the substances best application.