The Augusta Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 With advance apologies if you have had such a feeble request before..... Could anyone recommend a really good biography/monograph about Scipio Africanus? I have read Livy's account, of course, and done a bit of general skimming, but as this great man has now got his hooks into me, I would appreciate a really good, scholarly tome to get my teeth into. All recommendations greatly received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 With advance apologies if you have had such a feeble request before..... Could anyone recommend a really good biography/monograph about Scipio Africanus? I have read Livy's account, of course, and done a bit of general skimming, but as this great man has now got his hooks into me, I would appreciate a really good, scholarly tome to get my teeth into. All recommendations greatly received. Some of his hero worship style praise of Scipio can be a bit over the top and some of the focus on trying to prove him the greatest commander ever distracts from an otherwise excellent biography... but oddly enough, there are very few accessable choices when it comes to Scipio. Scipio Africanus: Greater than Napolean by B. H. Liddell Hart. Of course, you might also be interested in the contemporary account of Polybius starting in his Histories: Book X. Appian is also another excellent 'primary' source beginning around Book VI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan JKM Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 The Augusta, the strategic narrative of B.H. Liddel Hart's work is outstanding, as it sheds valuable light as to why Scipio was a remarkably balanced commander. However, when it comes to comparisons with Hannibal, the opinions of Hart seem quite tendentious. In my opinion, all his downplaying of Hannibal can be countered, such as the supposed 'inability' to siege cities and undertake pursuits. We can talk about this if you would like. I must stress the value of professor Howard H. Scullard's Scipio Africanus: Soldier and Politician. The study is longer, more balanced, and overall more objective than Hart's work, which is certainly terrific to counter the Hannibal biographers. We need a level of balance and opposing views to form deep conclusions of our own. History has simply found Hannibal more romantic than Scipio, though the two were very much alike as generals and men who understood that policy is what wins wars. The book is out of print though. You'll have to go to a major library. I spent hours photocopying it at the NYC Public Library, being that I wanted it so badly. I had to put it on reserve, too. If you can't find it let me know; maybe we could work soemthing out. You must study Scullard's work, judging by your inspiration regarding Scipio. It is a must!! Let me know how your search goes. Thanks Spartan JKM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divi Filius Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Yea I just checked on amazon, its cheapest is 90 dollars. On ebay its 170. In the UK its 270 pounds. I guess I will make a trip to the NY public library one day. After putting down what I have now and finished Lindel Harts I will go and pick this up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Augusta, if you are interested in Zama, you might look at: Hannibal by T.A. Dodge. http://www.amazon.com/Hannibal-Theodore-Ay...TF8&s=books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan JKM Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 (edited) Actually, I find Dodge and Hart an excellent 1-2 punch for studying Scipio and Hannibal. I guess I will make a trip to the NY public library one day. After putting down what I have now and finished Lindel Harts I will go and pick this up. It is in the biography section, 5th floor under the S section. It is not in the famous library (you know, the statues of the two lions), now one for purely research, but located in the branch across 5th Avenue (entrance on the SE corner of 40th st and 5 Avenue). It is one of the best biographies I have ever read! His analysis of Zama is an outstanding postulation, in my opinion. I keep my photocopied copy 'safe' and binded. If anyone has questions with anything specific about Scipio from professor Scullard's work, I'll be happy tp provide quotes etc. Thanks, Spartan JKM Edited September 19, 2006 by Spartan JKM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Clodius Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 (edited) Augusta, if you are interested in Zama, you might look at: Hannibal by T.A. Dodge. http://www.amazon.com/Hannibal-Theodore-Ay...TF8&s=books Excellent book, very detailed. If you're looking for an overview type book, well told, try THIS You may well be wondering why we're recommending books about Hannibal. Well the answer is simple really, all that we know is derived from roman sources, or clients of rome. Scipio's story is embedded within Hannibal's story. I would recommend Baker's book for an overview, then I would go with Hart's worthy effort, followed by GO's recommendation, which I consider to be the 'bible'. Edited September 19, 2006 by P.Clodius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotWotius Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 (edited) Some of his hero worship style praise of Scipio can be a bit over the top and some of the focus on trying to prove him the greatest commander ever distracts from an otherwise excellent biography... but oddly enough, there are very few accessable choices when it comes to Scipio. Scipio Africanus: Greater than Napolean by B. H. Liddell Hart. This is indeed a good read, though as stated earlier, his attempt to depict Scipio as the world's greatest general is crammed full of revisionist zeal; his apparent superiority over Napoleon, and modesty as a general are highlighted, but his assessment of his flawed political career is a bit thin on the ground. However, I am quite inclined to believe that this is one of the best books on Scipio: Hart sheds light on a man little known outside of historical circles, and even though at the end of the book I felt Hannibal was still the greater man, he brings a unique view of Scipio to the public. Though having said this, I am still yet to read HH Scullards' Scipio Africanus: Soldier and Politician as I am in fact having trouble finding a copy under Edited September 19, 2006 by WotWotius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Augusta Posted September 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Thank you so much, gents, for your suggestions. I was certainly not aware that Scullard had written a work on Scipio, and will do my best to obtain it. I have only the Loeb volumes of Appian's Civil Wars to date, so that is another avenue I will explore - and I have been shamefully neglectful of Polybius altogether. I had heard of the Liddell Hart - and will certainly bear in mind the reservations when I read it. A note to the Spartan - I would be happy to discuss Hannibal with you when I've read the Liddell Hart. I was always much more into the political history of Rome than the military (as if it can ever be separated!) but have found that this side is interesting me more and more as I get older. Once again, thank you for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 I had heard of the Liddell Hart - and will certainly bear in mind the reservations when I read it. May I suggest that you read the book without reservations. L-H is no fool and is quite well respected. Make up your mind after you have read the tome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotWotius Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 So has anybody found a cheap copy of the H H Scullard book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 So has anybody found a cheap copy of the H H Scullard book? A library? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotWotius Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 So has anybody found a cheap copy of the H H Scullard book? A library? Nope, Leicester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divi Filius Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Wot, you can try ebay, I think they have it. I would not recommend UK amazon.com since the book is ridiculous there, but American amazon has it for around 90 dollars used. I dont know if they ship internationally however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Try some used book store snuggled away in a dark alley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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