Veracity Of Hbos Rome

[Pertinax]

The work put into series one of "Rome" is enormous , those possessing the box set will be aware of the "Historical Advisor" who was employed to ensure veracity of the "world" of Rome. As can be divined from the commentaries some things "slipped the net" , some were unavoidable and others were open to interpretation.

A couple of my favourite things were : the "stunt dog" ie: the labrador/cross that spent a lot of time eating scraps of food (when Pullo and Octavian emerged from the sewer for example) offset from main camera shot,but you can see him often if you look hard! Also the non-Roman parrot in Attia's house, how did he fly from Australia?

These are minor geek things , what of more obvious difficulties? The disciplinary lashing of Pullo is a case in point , 10 lashes in the Legion were a serious punishment, and the light cuts he suffered were not anywhere near the reality of this severe punishment:

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...si&img=1271

That Pullo could walk away from such a punishment seems unlikely.

 

On the other hand there are "creative ideas" that may not be verifiable, but that give flavour to the narrative:

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...si&img=1273

Cleopatara's hair may be outrageous, but is it an unreasonable conceit?

[M. Porcius Cato]

A couple more quibbles:

The relative ages of the principal characters were sometimes off by quite a bit. For example, in the show, Cato looks older than Caesar who looks older than Cicero; in reality, Cicero was older than Caesar who was older than Cato.

 

In the show, Vercingetorix was throttled publicly, though by actual tradition, he would have been strangled in a private ritual in the the Tullianum after being displayed publicly. Horrifying though it is, the pity of the crowd for Cleopatra's sister Arsinoe and the infant son of Juba were said to have spared them from the fate of Vercingetorix.

 

Obviously, Titus Pullo did not really bring down the republic.

[Ursus]

"Cato looks older than Caesar" is an understatement. He looked like he had one foot in the grave from a massive stroke.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Also, wasn't there some dispute about the dormice?

Edited September 19, 2006 by M. Porcius Cato

[Horatius]

That reminds me. I remember there was some discussion on these boards about the opening battle scene ( which I think is quite good) especially the whistle and the way they held on to the man in front of them. If you turn on the narration for that episode they claim it was based on the latest research on Roman close battle tactics and they give a name. I have watched it a few times but can't pick out the name sounds like Deiky or something I think. Anyone able to pick out the name and identify who this source was that they based that scene on?

Edited September 19, 2006 by Horatius

[Pertinax]

That reminds me. I remember there was some discussion on these boards about the opening battle scene ( which I think is quite good) especially the whistle and the way they held on to the man in front of them. If you turn on the narration for that episode they claim it was based on the latest research on Roman close battle tactics and they give a name. I have watched it a few times but can't pick out the name sounds like Deiky or something I think. Anyone able to pick out the name and identify who this source was that they based that scene on?

 

You refer to this image perhaps?

 

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...si&img=1270

 

The dormice however, M P Cato has me stumped (and certainly I was paying strict attention to the food scenes), I have previously alluded to a dormouse confit -perhaps AD will give hs attention to this weighty debating point?

 

Against all this here is a shot showing some very good detailed work on set design:

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...si&img=1275

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

While browsing through Pertinax's Hbo Rome gallery i came across this picture

 

 

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...si&img=1272

In the background of this scene is a statue of a horse, now i'm just wondering if this is the very charger that Suetonius speaks of in 'The Twelve Caesars' and was also brought up in a thread not so long back in which we came to the conclusion that this horse probably never existed and was just part of Suetonius' story telling?

 

Here's the thread http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4751

 

What do you think?

Edited September 19, 2006 by Gaius Paulinus Maximus

[Horatius]

You refer to this image perhaps?

 

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...si&img=1270

 

Yes! thats it and the whistle. Still wonder who this Dieky guy is though.Probably someone that everyone's heard of but me hehe. If anyone is bored turn on the narration to the first episode, some of these features on the DVD set or really nice.

Edited September 19, 2006 by Horatius

[M. Porcius Cato]

In the background of this scene is a statue of a horse, now i'm just wondering if this is the very charger that Suetonius speaks of in 'The Twelve Caesars' and was also brought up in a thread not so long back in which we came to the conclusion that this horse probably never existed and was just part of Suetonius' story telling?

 

It's a horse. An ordinary horse with ordinary hoofs. Suetonius was talking about a five-toed horse, which in the era we're talking about is as biologically plausible as Barnum's Fiji Mermaid. No one doubts that Caesar rode a horse, and there were plenty of statues of horses in Rome--all of them quite normally hoofed.

[WotWotius]

I picked up on a two very minor points:

 

Julia, the wife of Pompeius Magnus and Daughter of Caesar, actually died while Caesar was busy campaigning in Britannia.

 

Lucius Vorenus referred to his marriage as a 'special commission' for his services as Roman Primus Pilus. However, in a later episode it comes up in conversation that Vorenus and his wife were married before he joined the army. Surely Vorenus would have entered the army as a mere Tirones, and therefore would not have received a special marriage commission. It just seems like the writers hurriedly put in a reason for his marriage when they found out legionaries of Rome could not marry.

Edited September 19, 2006 by WotWotius

[Pertinax]

Would such a marital dispensation be common? Can anyone help. Vorenus' suggested early poverty rings true as regards his career as a soldier, ie: a better alternative to starvation, to a man of spirit. Does anyone have attested examples of the indulgence of marriage (at this time period)?

[Primus Pilus]

Would such a marital dispensation be common? Can anyone help. Vorenus' suggested early poverty rings true as regards his career as a soldier, ie: a better alternative to starvation, to a man of spirit. Does anyone have attested examples of the indulgence of marriage (at this time period)?

 

Just my own theory here on a few concepts at work regarding married legionaries (in the professional standing armies of the later Republic and early principate)....

 

The children of these unmarried legionaries were illegitimate and non citizens (which therefore would make them ineligible for various state sponsored doles, though the mother still could be a citizen). I'm not sure if there was any financial incentive based simply upon this, but since marriage to Romans was often a political and/or financial arrangement, perhaps disallowing marriage kept any children as non citizens preventing any future state responsibility or issues with legitimate wills in case of a father's death. Perhaps the lawmakers simply did not wish to increase the plebiean ranks by allowing lower born common soldiers to reproduce too readily (clearly we know throughout history that men going off to war tend to produce baby-booms). There is great evidence of difficulty in Roman reproduction of the upper classes, but I don't know if the same is true of the common people.

 

At any rate, many of these children were likely raised in a semi military environment (in the frontiers near or on the bases in many cases). Perhaps this helped create a ready made pool of new recruits. Of course, these children would be legitimized upon their father's retirement and therefore made citizens. This would open up other potential opportunities to them, but perhaps the path of a military career was already in motion.

 

Just some quick thoughts really.

[Pertinax]

This makes good sense if one considers the number of Legionary attestations , regarding birth , "in castrum" That is, they are numerous -inded remarkably so as regards men of accomplishment.

[Julius Ratus]

If I remember correctly, Atia wasn't like she was in the show, she was rather poor, and didn't want little Octavian running around with Caesar bacause he "came from a bad crowd".

[M. Porcius Cato]

The dormice however, M P Cato has me stumped (and certainly I was paying strict attention to the food scenes), I have previously alluded to a dormouse confit -perhaps AD will give hs attention to this weighty debating point?

 

According to Mary Beard (writing for the Guardian), the dormouse scene occurs roughly 30 minutes into episode one. I'm pretty sure we wrote about the dormouse in a previous thread.