BBC Ancient Rome: New Docudrama's

[spittle]

From the point of view of the novice, myself (I know little about the ancients and notjhing about Nero) the programme could not have been better. I have already ordered '69AD The Year of Four Emperors' to read into the aftermath of this period and would appreciate suggestions for actually understanding the the early empire upto, and including, Nero.

 

The castration scene was deeply disturbing and if the actual proceedure was incorrect it still demonstrated the horror of this lunatics absolute power. An acceptable use of poetic license in my opinion. And then to directly go to the campaign of 'assisted suicides' showed the fear that all Romans must have felt during this short period of her history.

 

I imagine there are very many people who have woken this morning with an intention to find out more about this man and these times and that is due to the power of last nights programme.

 

My one criticism is that far too much was crammed into one fifty minute show. It should have been a minimum of three and a full series dedicated just to the events examined in that onre programme would not have been inappropriate.

[Gaius Octavius]

Spot on Augusta.

Although I didn't see this affair in the U.S., your critique applies to all of these alleged 'history' shows.

I don't think that the people who participate in these 'docudramas' bother with looking at their product. A point I would like to make is that a person not in the know, will never know that anything is amiss.

 

I don't believe in 'balance'. A fact is a fact. But contrasting views, presented as such, are fair.

[Pertinax]

The scene in the amphitheatre did however rouse one question: it was a structure built of stone, but weren

[DecimusCaesar]

Yes, that's the one. It was aired around the same time that the Pompeii documentary was made. I think they re-used some of the scenes from that old show or they just filmed new scenes with actors dressed in the exact same costumes. It just looked too familiar.

 

As for the amphitheatres in Rome, I'm not sure if they were made out of wood at this period, but the 'spectacula' built during the republic (in Capua ?) was made out of stone.

[Pertinax]

Thanks for clearing that up DC.

 

The real test of this new series will probably be the next episode, its GJC himself.No-one will be short of an opinion by the end of the showing of that episode. Did they start with Nero because he was such a "sensational" type (as offered here) , just as the HBO series had more sex and less politics in the truncated British episodes?

The "demographic" is obviously considered a little lowbrow.

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

I tend to agree with Augusta, i know they only had an hour to cram everything in but i think they could have spent just a few minutes to give a description of Nero accession to the throne instead of just diving in half way through his reign, i also think at times it was almost comical like the scene where Tigellinus comes in to tell him about the start of a rebellion and Nero pops up with an orange in his mouth says something nonsensical then just mince's out of the room, i know the guy was mad but i think they took it a bit too far.

On a plus point there were some great scenes aswell like the castration and the kicking to death of Poppaea although the actual reason for this was debatable, these scenes were quite shocking and really got the point across of how disturbed Nero really was.

Another thing i found a bit strange was why did they begin with Nero and then next week go back in time 100 years to Caesar??? Surely it would have made sense to start at the beginning and proceed from there, surely Caesar would have been a better crowd puller, i'm pretty sure the viewing figures would have been higher because lets face it everyone has heard of Caesar where as in Nero's case he's not as well known.

 

All in all though it wasn't a bad effort and i'll definately watch the rest of the series, and probably moan about it aswell

Edited September 23, 2006 by Gaius Paulinus Maximus

[Ursus]

Fascinating discussion, my UK friends. Do let us know how the Julius Caesar episode plays out. If they ruin JC, I won't consider buying the DVD.

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

Fascinating discussion, my UK friends. Do let us know how the Julius Caesar episode plays out. If they ruin JC, I won't consider buying the DVD.

 

It's going to be very interesting to see how they portray Caesar, will it be as the all conquering can do no wrong hero or as the single minded ruthless politician, hopefully it will be a bit of both, lets just hope the get the right mix.

[phil25]

I'm afraid that, like The Augusta, I must be largely critical of this "Nero".

 

For all the hype about this being the "FACTS" it was IMHO shallow, sensational, trite and misleading - it may also have been factually wrong.

 

Maybe scholarship has moved on in recent years, and I am out of date, but I understood that one of the fascinating enigmas about Nero as a "bad" emperor was that the empire did not seem to have been misgoverned in his reign, and that amazingly whatever the personality and local actions of the princeps, the bureaucracy continued to function smoothly.

 

I was not aware that we had any basis for Nero putting "art" on every street corner - we know he wanted better town planning and building regulations, an end to the flimsy insulae etc. We know he constructed himself an amazing "House" and have debated here the reasons for that. But some of the scenes with the "model" (Ustinov did it better in "Quo Vadis"!!) smacked more of Hitler and Speer than Nero.

 

The castration of Sporus was stupid and insulted the intelligence - in the ancient world the operation was well-known and frequently carried out. It would not have been done on the floor on a whim in a grotty grotto. And it made nonsense of the subsequent relationship.

 

Nero's sexuality is complex - possible incest with mother, marriage to step-sister (whom he seems to have loathed), the affairs with Acte and Poppaea; the murder of the latter, and the later bi-sexual or homosexual activities... Surely there were things to explore here beyond the superficial?

 

The programme also lacked consistency. If so much of Rome had been destroyed, how come the temples and their treasures were still intact? Surely they would have been damaged or destroyed? And would the princeps have needed to use a battering ram to gain entrance?

 

Was the corpse of Poppaea ever propped up on a throne in the curia?

 

Why was so much time spent on rubbing salt in a man's eye, and on the special effect of its result when so much else was skated over?

 

The "Christians" and persecution was ommitted which I applaud, but why? Blame by the mob of Nero for the fire, despite other criticism of his tyranny , was never mentioned. Odd.

 

The dropping of the sceptre seemed trivial and contrived. I don't think Nero actually WAS a great actor/mime/singer - but I doubt he was THAT incompetent. He did take it seriously and must have had much coaching by the best teachers.

 

Why choose the last few years of his reign - I know I Claudius covered the accession, but that was years ago. The more interesting period is surely that up the murder of Agrippina Minor - her attempts to rule; the quinquennium Neronis (why were those years so good?); the murder of Britannicus and later Octavia and finally of his mother herself.

 

Finally - and I could say much more - what about the depictions of Seneca and Tigellinus? I had always thought the latter a much sleazier character and much more sly. Here he was depicted as a soldier through and through with a SS like devition and ruthlessness. Seneca was hardly the kindly old man shown here - his financial dealings and profit-taking may well have caused the Boudiccan revolt in Britannia. His judgement and the outcome of his tutelage of Nero were catastrophic. we got "Gandalf"!! to continue an analogy from a previous poster!!

 

I ought to say before ending that the production values were not bad - one Forum image seemed to be direct from "Fall of the Roman Empire" (60s epic). Costumes better than usual, but Tigellinus in white? And armour in the Urbs?

 

I look forward to the next episode on Caesar with undiluted eagerness. They may make a better fist of the politics than they did of the sex and sensation and Pertwee looks promising.

 

But if Mary Beard thinks what was shown on Thursday represents the reality of history, I wouldn't trust her judgement in other things. Maybe she protested and was over ruled by the producers, but this was not solidly academically based reconstruction. To me, an opportunity was missed to explore whether the truth behind the legand was less about a monstor and more about manipulation of a weak man.

 

Phil

[DecimusCaesar]

Fascinating discussion, my UK friends. Do let us know how the Julius Caesar episode plays out. If they ruin JC, I won't consider buying the DVD.

 

 

As for next week's episode the guy who played Julius Caesar (from the brief clips I saw of him in the trailer) certainly looked a bit like him. He was bald at least. I hope it will be accurate Ursus.

[Pertinax]

Some more articles from The Sunday Times:

 

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/art...2354065,00.html

 

AA Gill, a particular favourite of mine, writes a dismissive review.He suggests the Empire fell because of bad fashion sense.

[Gaius Octavius]

I wonder how well this will be done:

 

http://www.historyinternational.com/greatempires/

[phil25]

Probably they'll find a new way of expressing the old adage: "What goes up must come down"!!

 

Phil

[DecimusCaesar]

Gaius Octavius Posted Today, 01:28 PM

I wonder how well this will be done:

 

http://www.historyinternational.com/greatempires/

 

 

The link Gaius has provided mentions Alexander's Empire. I would like to see how they cover that Empire's decline. Will they just mention Alexander's story or will it begin with his death and how the subsequent Hellenistic dynasties declined over the next few centuries ( Antigonid, Seleucid and Ptolemaic) ?

If they do go down this road that would mean the program would have to end with the aftermath of Actium.

 

Sounds interesting, but seeing as I don't have the history channel, I won't be able to watch it.

[Princeps]

Unfortunately I missed this. I watch a fair few hours of TV on Thursday nights, but there are other shows that compete with the subject programme (Sopranos, and I think that was the night I caught up on 'Low Winter Sun', plus something else too). One of my friends watched though, he was apparently amused by a scene in which Nero contrives a survival strategy involving 100 prostitutes, and another where Nero finds a comely young lad with the aspect of Poppea. That's the type of thing that amuses him ).

 

ps Admin, have we lost the media forum?