Conquistadores

[docoflove1974]

He might have been savage but Francisco Pizzaro was worse, maybe because he was from a humble background he felt he had to take more drastic actions to prove his control over the the rest of the Conquistadores. I think he only took the action to execute Atahuallpa after more Conquistadores arrived from Europe wanting some gold.

 

As I recall, his brothers were as bad as good ol' Frank! If not worse!

[DecimusCaesar]

Yes, so i've read, I think somebody described them as the Corleone's of the 16th Century and there is constant refernces to the mafia when people talk of the Pizzaro family.

[Ludovicus]

The 1986 movie, The Mission, is an interesting look at European colonial adventures in Latin America. From IMDB's plot summary:

 

"Jeremy Irons plays a Spanish Jesuit who goes into the South American wilderness to build a mission in the hope of converting the Indians of the region. Robert DeNiro plays a slave hunter who is converted and joins Irons in his mission. When Spain sells the colony to Portugal, they are forced to defend all they have built against the Portugese aggressors.

"Father Gabriel ascends the mountains of Brazil to bring christianity to the natives. He is successful and brings about a golden age among them. Mendoza, a slaver, kills his brother in a fit of rage, and only Fr. Gabriel's guidance prevents his suicide. Gabriel brings Mendoza to work at his mission with the natives, and Mendoza finds peace and asks to become a priest. The church , under pressure, cedes the land to the Portuguese which will allow slavers in again. Mendoza breaks his vows and organizes the natives to resist while Gabriel warns him to help them as a priest."

 

I believe that the time period is just outside the Conquista, but the issues are pretty much the same. For more info:

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091530/

[DecimusCaesar]

Have you seen the movie Ludovicus? What do you think of it?

[Ludovicus]

Have you seen the movie Ludovicus? What do you think of it?

 

 

I saw "The Mission" when it was released in 1986 and was fascinated. Later a Latin American friend of mine with a good background in the region's history told me that the movie is quite acurate when it comes to basic facts. I'm looking forward to renting the movie and seeing it again.

Edited September 17, 2006 by Ludovicus

[Gaius Octavius]

The Conquistadores were men of their age. When the indigenous peoples got their hands on the new comers, they acted in much the same fashion.

[Ludovicus]

Of course, the indigenous people of the Americas reacted with great violence against the Spanish, Portuguese, English, etc. They were invaders.

[docoflove1974]

Of course, the indigenous people of the Americas reacted with great violence against the Spanish, Portuguese, English, etc. They were invaders.

 

Not just invaders...but invaders who intended to seize direct control swiftly and immediately, and who definitely had 'fancier toys' (horses, guns, better swords, if the indigenous peoples even had swords, and I'm not sure on this, either). When possible and convenient, as I recall, there were some tribes who made pacts with the Spanish in order to help them defeat their rivals--I vaguely recall this in particular with Cortez and the various (what is now) Mexican tribes, who drooled at the thought of conquering the Aztecs. It wouldn't shock me if there was similar 'help' from the indigenous peoples when it came to defeating the Incas and Aymara tribes, too.

[Ludovicus]

Of course, the indigenous people of the Americas reacted with great violence against the Spanish, Portuguese, English, etc. They were invaders.

 

Not just invaders...but invaders who intended to seize direct control swiftly and immediately, and who definitely had 'fancier toys' (horses, guns, better swords, if the indigenous peoples even had swords, and I'm not sure on this, either). When possible and convenient, as I recall, there were some tribes who made pacts with the Spanish in order to help them defeat their rivals--I vaguely recall this in particular with Cortez and the various (what is now) Mexican tribes, who drooled at the thought of conquering the Aztecs. It wouldn't shock me if there was similar 'help' from the indigenous peoples when it came to defeating the Incas and Aymara tribes, too.

 

 

Yes, the Aztecs were also occupiers and much hated. The Cempoalans and the Tlaxcalans allied themselves with Cortez.

Here's a very informative website about the conquest of Mexico from the University of Calgary, Canada:

http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tut...voya/aztec.html

Edited September 18, 2006 by Ludovicus

[Gaius Octavius]

Of course, the indigenous people of the Americas reacted with great violence against the Spanish, Portuguese, English, etc. They were invaders.

 

Throughout history invaders have always been the case - even the Indian tribes.

[DecimusCaesar]

Not just invaders...but invaders who intended to seize direct control swiftly and immediately, and who definitely had 'fancier toys' (horses, guns, better swords, if the indigenous peoples even had swords, and I'm not sure on this, either). When possible and convenient, as I recall, there were some tribes who made pacts with the Spanish in order to help them defeat their rivals...

 

It's true that the horses absolutely terrified the native peoples and they had no clue how to react to them until the last few weeks of the siege of Tenochtitlan (the Aztecs had created long spears to repel them). The Conquistadores greatest weapon was the horse as they often defeated armies of Aztecs or Incas just by charging into their rears when they least expected them. The guns and the crossbows on the other hand were not very good, only a handful of men were armed with guns during Cortez's expedition (120 at Tenochtitlan a lot less earlier on). Guerilla warfare tactics of the natives rendered the Arquebus and the crossbow useless for the Conquistadores, so they had rely even more on native auxillaries (just as Doc and Ludovicus have pointed out) and on their own bravery...Pizzaro's men at the battle of Cajamarca.

 

 

I have also seen 'The Mission' Ludovicus, the cinematography and music score were brilliant and the script was well written, even if it was rather slow paced from time to time.

It didn't have much of an emotional impact on me till I saw it for the second or third time and it's a rather sad tale. You were lucky to be able to see it in 1986 (most other people saw it years later) I would have prefered to see it on the big screen.

[Ludovicus]

You can see a trailer for "The Mission" at:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091530/trailers

 

You have to sit thru a 15 second commerical first.

 

Cortez used attack dogs in the overthrow of the Aztec empire. Ferocious, deadly dogs were used against the indigenous population of present day Puerto Rico. Here's a summary in Spanish about the military use of canines during the Conquest:

http://spanish-alano.com/america.htm

[Ludovicus]

In David Siqueiros's famous mural sequence on the torment of Cuautemoc, the Conquistador's attack dog symbolizes Spain's overthrow of the Aztecs. This very famous depiction can be found in Mexico City's Palace of Fine Arts ( Palacio de Bellas Artes) or just click here:

 

http://mexico.udg.mx/arte/pintores/imagen/monument.GIF

[DecimusCaesar]

Thanks for the links Ludovicus, I have seem a similar style painting to the one you have posted in a book on the Aztecs.

 

I have also seen 16th Century drawings depicting natives been set upon by dogs. Those hounds they had were massive.

[Julius Ratus]

I have always admired the Conquistadores, because it was people like them that made Europe strong. I will admit, they were nasty bastards, but they had cojones. Yes Cortes relied heavily upon native levies when fighting the Aztecs (or Mexica as they called themselves), but for the first few battles, when he had no auxiliaries, it was a few hundred Spaniard veterans vs thousands of indigs, and Cortes won. Even if he used deciet to gain enterance into Tenochtitlan, pretending he was a god, that was a cunning strategy, not an underhanded trick. Know your enemy.

 

For all who are interested, Mel Gibson is making a movie about the fall/self-distruction of the Maya. It should be out before too long.