Jews And Romans

[Favonius Cornelius]

For those who are interested - the ramp is still there today.

 

Interesting read caldrail sounds like you know your stuff on Masada. I never head about the ramp's stone piers before, are they still there too?

[Ingsoc]

The seem to forgate that Roman-Jewish relations began in a positive manner, in 169 BC about 100 years before Pompeius conquer Judea, an alliance was formed between the Jewish rebels agains the Selecuid Empire and the Roman Republic. all Hasmonean rulers until Alexander Jannaeus renew the alliance.

 

In the time of Alexander Jannaeus and his heirs there were a shipt in the Jewish policy, the seleucid were no longer a threat to either Judean or Rome and in the east there were a fear of being conquered by Rome, we have knowlege the Judea was part of the anti-roman eastern alliance (we know it's had good relationship with Parthia and Armenia).

 

Although i have another question, were there any examples of Romans (whether soldiers or other Roman citizens) having any relationships with Jews, 'cause, i've read that in some of the places the Romans conquered, like Britain, etc, some of the soldiers posted in a specific territory would end up having relationships with the people there, and i was just wondering, if there were any examples of this happening between Jews and Romans.

 

Thanks again for all the replies .

 

The Jewish religious law forbide relationship with non-Jews, the only example I know of to such relationship are with the two daughters of king Agrippa I: Drusilla merried the roman procurator of Judea Antonius Felix and her sister Berenice was the mistress of the Roman emperor Titus (from the time of his campain in Jerusalem until the time he was crowned emperor).

[caldrail]

For those who are interested - the ramp is still there today.

 

Interesting read caldrail sounds like you know your stuff on Masada. I never head about the ramp's stone piers before, are they still there too?

 

The stone piers were put in to stop the earth ramp from collapsing under the weight of men, engines, and workings. Not that the romans were too bothered about the lives of their jewish slaves, it was simply because they wanted workers, not corpses. As far as I'm aware, the stone piers will still be in place under all that dirt. It was quite a difficult project however despite the ten thousand slaves available. The defenders made life difficult and thats the reason why ballistae were sited there to keep their heads down. It should also be realised that using a ramp like that meant that the romans could only attack at one point and that the enemy knew they were coming. Thats one of the reasons why the defenders created a secondary wall of stone and timber behind the outer one.

[Gaius Octavius]

Caldrail, although I can't cite it at present, I think that the use of '10,000 Jewish slaves' was highly unlikely.

Think in terms of feeding and housing them in a desert. Think in terms of sabotage. The legionaries had the experience in building military (and civilian) structures. Josephus?

 

AoS must be very busy.

Edited March 22, 2007 by Gaius Octavius

[caldrail]

Caldrail, although I can't cite it at present, I think that the use of '10,000 Jewish slaves' was highly unlikely.

Think in terms of feeding and housing them in a desert. Think in terms of sabotage. The legionaries had the experience in building military (and civilian) structures. Josephus?

 

AoS must be very busy.

 

400 donkey loads a day arrived at camp. I doubt the slaves got fed extra portions either, but I take your point, I'm simply repeating the figures given. Sabotage? Good point. Have a gold star and three house points! The opportunities would have been limited and remember that the overseers were jewish too and thus not so easy to fool, being keen to preserve their privilege. In fact, the wiley jews are mentioned by Josephus a few times as being pulling strokes where-ever they could. One excellent example from the Siege of jerusalem was a young boy, who approached the roman soldiers waiting by the well, obviously desperate for water. The guards, in a moment of warm-heartedness not normally associated with legionaries, allowed him to drink. He then stole a bucket ful from undertheir noses and ran back to his compatriots, along with some very choice language from the soldiers! Its that level of sabotage I would expect. Small opportunistic things done by individuals, not large scale schemes by people who were probably too tired and sore from whipping to care.

Edited March 23, 2007 by caldrail

[georgious]

It's been ages since i've visited this forum so i hope this isn't a repeat of anything else, but does anyone know if there were any times in ancient history where the Jews and Romans weren't hostile to each other, and does anyone have any theories or knowledgle as to why, out of every other group the Romans came into contact with, the Romans and Jews seemed to have a worse relationship with each other, it's something i'm interested in as i'm interested in both Jewish and Ancient Roman history.

 

I've read in one book (i can't remember which one) that at one time in history, Judaism was quite popular with upper class Romans (or maybe just with upper class Roman women?, i can't remember the full quote), is this true, i know that when the Romans came back to Rome after visiting other countries and conquering them, they'd bring back different religions (like didn't the Isis cult, Mithrasism, Elysian(sp?) mysteries, etc become popular in Rome) and i was just wondering, if it ever became popular with any Romans.

 

I've also read that one Emperor on a visit to Jerusalem in Palestine, demanded to be brought in to see the Jewish Temple, and, despite protests about it, barged in and entered the hidden sanctuary (i think?) where the High Priest would commune with Yahweh, and, the book said, no one knew what he saw, but when he emerged, he became a defender and supporter of the Jews (sorry that i can't remember the book's name, but it was ages ago), does anyone know which Emperor this was and if this is true.

 

If it is true, did the Jews ever receive backing from certain parts of Rome or the Roman Empire?.

 

Thanks for any answers you can give, and sorry if this seems like a really dumb question, it's just something i'm really interested in.

 

Thanks again .

I offer my small contribution here.If you have read Robert Gaves novels about Claudius which are supposedly based on the Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius, you will discover that what the Romans found striking about Judaism what its' exclusivity that is the belief in one God and one chosen people, a point which made adaptation difficult in the pluralist religious environment of the Roman Empire.The polytheism of the pagans made room for many cults that is many centers of piety and power.Jewish belief in one true God was a threat to all the other gods depriving their priesthood of clients.Most religious systems of the subject peoples were more or less adapted in the religious structure of Roman Imperialism.This was more difficult to happen with the Jewish religion.There have been terrible moments in Romano-Jewish relationships as the destruction of the Temple by Titus and Massada but I do not think that in those cases the Romans were more deadly and bestial compared with what they did with Carthage or Athens or Corinth or Gaul. I cannot say that Romans have been more ruthless with the Jews than they have been with other peoples.It is true though that the Jewish God was less easy to incorporate to the realities of the Empire compared to the Greek pantheon for example.