Primus Pilus Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Gaius Octavius (along with Antiochus, as I understand it) has/have proposed an interesting new discussion format that is worthy of a bit of experimentation. The general idea is to increase and/or improve upon the content of the site and/or the reference pool on various subjects. Often times, controversial subjects become inundated with opinion without supporting documentation for the casual (or learned) observer to understand the source or place it in a particular context. If successful, its been suggested that each topic could be appointed its own individual moderator who can decide the merits of a post, enforce the rules, direct a topic towards a certain goal, perhaps ultimately compile a database of primary source material on a subject, etc. Unfortunately adding moderators to individual threads may not work all that well for us administratively, but I like the concept. Here are the suggested rules.. 1. Citation of sources for a contribution or argument (essentially a post without a cited source is unwelcome) 2. Rebuttal allowed but only within the context of the original statement and with supported documentation 3. No tangents, stay on topic 4. No personal affronts. 5. No gutter language. 6. Moderators will be considered Tyrants for their own particular subjects. (Subject to technical capability) 7. New topics should be proposed by a potential qualified moderator via PM by to an admin First any additional feedback is most welcome. Second, I thought of starting a test subject, but would rather if the first test were a subject that people may feel strongly about rather than something arbitarily selected by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 I love this idea--it's sort of the polar opposite of the Arena, where it seems that anything goes. On the other hand, the most important rule is the one that will be most difficult to enforce. 1. Citation of sources for a contribution or argument (essentially a post without a cited source is unwelcome) So what level are we talking about here? Is "As Livy frequently remarked" going to cut it? Or do we need to cite chapter, verse, and translator? Also, a complex argument comprises many independent claims--does every claim require a citation? What about common knowledge? Can we just take as given that Caesar defeated the Helvetii, or do we have to cite the chapter, verse, and translator of the edition of the Commentaries where Caesar described his defeat of the Helvetii? Also, will this rule apply to all discussion forums within the major areas (e.g., Imperium Romanorum), or will there be a special board for those intrepid scholars who dare crack open their dusty Valerius? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Clodius Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 I'd say citations a la college paper. Novices will be reading this too so I reckon we go the full route! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted August 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 I love this idea--it's sort of the polar opposite of the Arena, where it seems that anything goes. On the other hand, the most important rule is the one that will be most difficult to enforce. 1. Citation of sources for a contribution or argument (essentially a post without a cited source is unwelcome) So what level are we talking about here? Is "As Livy frequently remarked" going to cut it? Or do we need to cite chapter, verse, and translator? Also, a complex argument comprises many independent claims--does every claim require a citation? What about common knowledge? Can we just take as given that Caesar defeated the Helvetii, or do we have to cite the chapter, verse, and translator of the edition of the Commentaries where Caesar described his defeat of the Helvetii? Indeed we are talking full citation. However, there will be instances that are common knowledge, but we'll play these by ear. Remember it will be completely up to the 'moderators' discretion. (provided I can figure out how to do it) If a citated fact is manipulated to show something other than its original statement... ie quoting Caesars invasion of the Helvetii to suggest personal ambition, its not the citation of Caesar vs. the Helvetii that must be included, but other documented notions that give us reason to believe it was ambition rather than his stated goal of helping allies that must be provided. Yes, it may be difficult and damn near impossible at times. Also, will this rule apply to all discussion forums within the major areas (e.g., Imperium Romanorum), or will there be a special board for those intrepid scholars who dare crack open their dusty Valerius? We'll definately try to create a new subforum, but I wanted to experiment a bit first, discuss the rules, make refinements etc. Is it feasable, practical, etc.? I think Gaius originally intended for this to be compiled into articles on the site, but I am thinking that it could also be used to build a complete bibliography of source material on obscure and noted subjects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Favonius Cornelius Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 I'm ready to give it a try, but I'm wondering how the cited sources aspect will pan out. Should we consider all resources to be equal? I guess that's up to the tyrant to decide. First time around I suggest Ursus or Primus for Moderator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 I'd say citations a la college paper. Novices will be reading this too so I reckon we go the full route! seconded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Paulinus Maximus Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 (edited) I have a few pro's and con's PRO'S Citation of sources- it will make people think before just jumping in with any old tale they've heard or seen in a film/novel No tangents, stay on topic- it can be quite annoying when somebody just goes off on a totaly different path and you lose the basis of the thread Building a complete biblography of source materials- fantastic idea! It will encourage people to do proper research, that bit i'm quite looking forward to CON'S It could scare quite a few people away, one of the great things about this forum is the easy going nature, i think with the new changes it could become stricter and more regimented which could put people off, especially the novices( i must admit i'm a bit weary myself, being a relative beginner compared to some of the big hitters on this site ) I think it could be pretty hard work for the moderators, it might be a little bit more than what they want or are capable of doing At the end of the day we'll never know unless we try it, so go for it Edited August 29, 2006 by Gaius Paulinus Maximus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 (edited) It could scare quite a few people away, one of the great things about this forum is the easy going nature, i think with the new changes it could become stricter and more regimented which could put people off, especially the novices( i must admit i'm a bit weary myself, being a relative beginner compared to some of the big hitters on this site ) I think it could be pretty hard work for the moderators, it might be a little bit more than what they want or are capable of doing At the end of the day we'll never know unless we try it, so go for it As I understand it, the Rules would only apply to this particular sub-forum and not to the other already established forums. The Tyrants would be volunteers. School having been an eon ago for me, perhaps the requirements for citations could be included in the originating statement for reference. It's nice that there are so many favorable comments, BUT LET"S GET CRACKING WITH THE 'SUBJECTS', ROMANS! GO UNRV! Edited August 29, 2006 by Gaius Octavius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Clodius Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Is this open to everyone or just Pats and Eques? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Is this open to everyone or just Pats and Eques? I don't wish to speak for P.P., but I believe that it is for all. Subject! Subjects! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Clodius Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 (edited) But then you run the danger of jackassery..I think it should be an earned privilege. By this I mean to post, veiwing should be open to all. Edited August 29, 2006 by P.Clodius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 But then you run the danger of jackassery..I think it should be an earned privilege. By this I mean to post, veiwing should be open to all. We have the option of removing an inappropriate thread to another area of the board, if it misses the mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted August 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 But then you run the danger of jackassery..I think it should be an earned privilege. By this I mean to post, veiwing should be open to all. We have the option of removing an inappropriate thread to another area of the board, if it misses the mark. Additionally, since each post would be subject to immediate dismissal if not properly cited, jackassery isn't quite the concern. Since it seems to be coming up a bit, allow me to reiterate that this is for these particular threads ONLY. It will not apply to every thread in the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil25 Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 To me this smacks of elitism. I come here for fun and discussion. I simply don't have time for all the academic flummery. If this becomes the norm, it will be a case of "goodnight" from me. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted August 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 To me this smacks of elitism. I come here for fun and discussion. I simply don't have time for all the academic flummery. If this becomes the norm, it will be a case of "goodnight" from me. Phil Allow me once again to reiterate that this format will only involve a few particular threads, not the forum as a whole. As Cato suggested... consider it almost as an antithesis to the arena. A place where detailed source information about particular subjects can be gathered, perused and debated. Free discussion on a variety of issues will still be the prevailing theme of the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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