PolarbeaR Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 I've seen a few threads on here about the triumvirate and done a LOT of research on the internet but i can't seem to find the information im looking for. What i need to know is why did Crassus join the triumvirate? I've read some stuff about tax-farming but it didnt really go into much detail Any help will be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldrail Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 Crassus was extremely wealthy. In ancient Rome wealth bought power and influence and lets not forget how competitive roman society was. When the chance came along to effectively become a joint ruler without going to all the hassle of getting a short stay as consul, of course he went for it. If he didn't, he was outside the loop, and had less control over his own affairs. That wealth of his was not guaranteed if someone else had the power to take it away. He was also ambitious, although as his fate shows, he had little military ability in a conquest state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarbeaR Posted August 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 Thanks! Do you know anything about his tax-farming problems in Asia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 Do you know anything about his tax-farming problems in Asia? I don't how much you know about tax-farming. The basic idea was that taxing rights were put up for auction, with the highest bidder winning the right to tax a province and Rome getting the proceeds of the auction. For the tax-farmer, the key was to bid no higher than he could recoup, but no lower than they other tax-farmers at the auction. The winners of the auction to tax Asia, however, bid too high (probably to the delight of the tax-farmers they beat at auction), and they found they couldn't recoup their investment. This is normally just an ordinary business risk, but the tax farmers decided they could get their buddy Crassus to re-work the deal and get some of their money back from the treasury. It was a crooked deal, and Cato opposed it. The rest is history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Didn't the government decide what was to be taxed and how much, and then farm out the collection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Didn't the government decide what was to be taxed and how much, and then farm out the collection? In the provinces, yes. Best I recall, taxes on Romans were abolished around the time of the Punic Wars and were only re-instated during the Imperial period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 (edited) Didn't the government decide what was to be taxed and how much, and then farm out the collection? In the provinces, yes. Best I recall, taxes on Romans were abolished around the time of the Punic Wars and were only re-instated during the Imperial period. How does that comport with your post #4, i.e., "...the right to tax...."? Edited August 28, 2006 by Gaius Octavius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pompieus Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Didn't the government decide what was to be taxed and how much, and then farm out the collection? Usually a senatorial committee was sent out to organize a new province at the time it was annexed. A law (lex provincia) would be drawn up by the commitee describing the relationship of the various towns and tribes of the province with the Roman state, including the taxes. The law would be discussed and voted on by the senate and, when approved, established the basis of the provincial administration. Always advocates of "small government" the Romans took the "privatisation" route and auctioned off the right to collect the taxes of the various provinces in Rome, as described by Cato. Companies were formed by Roman buisinessmen (equites) to bid on these contracts and so spread the risk. And like businessmen and lobbyists today, they used their political contacts to win the contracts and obtain better terms when they could. One of the ways Crassus built up his political influence was by cultivating the wealthy businessmen of Rome and Italy, and by advocating their interests in government circles. So it was natural that the holders of the Asian tax contract would approach him for relief when they got into trouble. The "First Triumvirate" itself was not an unconstitutional, revolutionary seizure of power but an agreement between three politicians to cooperate in order to achieve their goals - the stock in trade of Roman politics (although it had a bad odor to traditionalists). Caesar wanted the consulship, Pompey wanted his organization of the Eastern Provinces approved (he hadn't waited for the usual senatorial commisssion but had organized things himself) and the land grants he had promised his veterans, Crassus wanted the revision of the Asian tax contract and possibly other "behind the scenes" concessions that have not been preserved in the sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 How does that comport with your post #4, i.e., "...the right to tax...."? I left the phrase "right to tax" somewhat vague because while it is almost certain that tax farmers purchased the right to collect taxes, it is less certain how much (if any) legal discretion they had at setting tax rates (e.g., by collecting low/high taxes in alternate years, etc). Apparently, they also often over-taxed, suggesting they had quite a bit of de facto discretion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarbeaR Posted August 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Thanks heaps guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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