Roman Dogs? Or Cats?

[Pertinax]

The Vertragii (from the link in Skarr's post) look very similar to a modern greyhound/whippet type animal.

"Lurcher" would be the best modern term.

 

http://www.users.daelnet.co.uk/lurchers/

[Nephele]

Since dogs are a subject dear to my heart, I thought I'd revive this old thread. Some great information is included here on the breeds known to the ancient Romans, as I see that Skarr had included a link to information on the Laconian, Molossian, and Vetragus breeds (dogs bred for hunting and guard purposes).

 

I watched something on Roman Crime and it said that they never (or rarely) used dogs for pets, always for protection of property. I someone got through the door lock they would be greeted with a little suprise.

 

I'm not familiar with that series, but I do know that the ancient Romans definitely kept lap dogs. The modern Maltese breed is believed to have been the same little dog that was known as the "Melitaie" breed in ancient times (having originated on the island of Malta).

 

When researching for my article Names for Roman Dogs I came across a few references to Roman lap dogs:

 

Frank Frost Abbott (a late Professor of Classics in Princeton University) wrote a book in 1909 titled Society and Politics in Ancient Rome. In his chapter titled "Literature and the Common People of Rome," he wrote of epitaphs on pet dogs. One epitaph was to a little Gallic dog named "Myia," who "barked fiercely if she found a rival lying in her mistress's lap." Another touching epitaph was to a dog at Salernum named "Patricus": "...never again canst thou lie contently in my lap... what a loved companion we have lost!"

 

Two other examples of Roman lap dogs can be found in the writings of Martial and Propertius. There is the little dog named "Issa" (possibly a representative of the aforementioned Melitaie breed). This dog was thought to have been the beloved pet of the Roman governor of Malta, and was immortalized in an epigram of Martial's (Book I, 109). And then there is, "Craugis," a little dog mentioned in Propertius' Elegies (Book IV, 3) as sleeping in her mistress's bed.

 

-- Nephele

[Flavia Gemina]

Cats are hardly mentioned in ancient literature but dogs are frequently mentioned. Martial in particular talks about rich ladies and their lap dogs (NB NOT guard-dogs) including this pithy offering: 'Your lap-dog, Manneia, licks your mouth and lips: I do not wonder at a dog liking to eat poop.' Martial I.83

 

We have quite a few mosaics of dogs and as far as I can remember THEY ALL HAVE RED COLLARS. See some HERE

 

Flavia.

[Gaius Octavius]

An age ago, I went to a Jack Russell dog show. I was given charge of a couple of little girls. We ambled and ran into a herd of Lurchers owned by a couple of British ladies. The kids insisted on playing with the dogs. These dogs were at least 3', if not 4' into the stratosphere, much bigger than Whippets or Greyhounds. Ladies gave the OK; I reluctantly agreed. Dogs were very gentle with the kids. One kid asked the ladies: "Do they bite?" Reply: Well, yes. How do you think that they eat?"

 

I was told that they were a British breed used for taking down deer.

 

Oh, our JR, Kalley, took Best in Show.

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Early on, the Romans used dogs in combat. They gave them up because they would like as not turn on the Romans.

[The Augusta]

Before I go further - Welcome back to our Flavia! You have been missed.

 

Now, as a cat-lover rather than a dog-lover, I am quite interested in how the Romans saw their Pussums (my word!) I know that they were revered for catching vermin, but were they actually given love and cuddles? I somehow doubt this, as they had a definite job to do like any other household slave. The only mosaic I have managed to retrieve on the Internet shows a cat pouncing on a bird - so, the superior, independent, noble species had its reputation to keep up 2000 years ago. I note that Steven Saylor's books have a place for a cat - Bast, whom his main character loves - but he is certainly unique among authors of Roman historical novels in attaching affection to the noble species. (Clearly, the modern Steven loves Pussums - but is he imbuing the ancient vermin-hunters with a sentimentality that the Romans didn't really feel?)

 

Any thoughts on the Pussums of Rome?

Edited October 11, 2007 by The Augusta

[G-Manicus]

Now, as a cat-lover rather than a dog-lover, I am quite interested in how the Romans saw their Pussums (my word!) I know that they were revered for catching vermin, but were they actually given love and cuddles?

 

I would find it hard to imagine that given the nature of dogs and to a (MUCH, MUCH!) lesser extent, cats, to show affection to the Alpha, that eventually said Alpha would put their hand down and give Fido a scratch of the ear, which in turn would lead to Fido completely falling over and wagging his tale like mad at this act of affection. This would lead to things such as playing a game called "ball" and other such activities and would begin the man's best friend bonding process.

Edited October 11, 2007 by G-Manicus

[The Augusta]

Now, as a cat-lover rather than a dog-lover, I am quite interested in how the Romans saw their Pussums (my word!) I know that they were revered for catching vermin, but were they actually given love and cuddles?

 

I would find it hard to imagine that given the nature of dogs and to a (MUCH, MUCH!) lesser extent, cats, to show affection to the Alpha, that eventually said Alpha would put their hand down and give Fido a scratch of the ear, which in turn would lead to Fido completely falling over and wagging his tale like mad at this act of affection.

 

Ah - G-Man - clearly you have not met my Persian! Affection? She could knock any dog into a cocked hat!

[Flavia Gemina]

I note that Steven Saylor's books have a place for a cat - Bast, whom his main character loves...

 

Thanks for the welcome back, Augusta!

 

Steven Saylor's cat-loving character is an Alexandrian Jewess, and that makes sense as cats were sacred in Egypt. (He's written a fun short story all about The Alexandrian Cat in his House of the Vestals collection). I think cats were mainly rat and pest catchers in Roman times.

 

Here are two nice pix. This one from the Republican period, which you mentioned: http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/catmosaic2.jpg

 

And this civet-like creature from Pompeii: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Cat_mosaic.JPG

 

The story is that the Phoenicians had rat-catching cats on their ships and that's how they were spread from Egypt around the Med...

 

Flavia

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

I note that Steven Saylor's books have a place for a cat - Bast, whom his main character loves - but he is certainly unique among authors of Roman historical novels in attaching affection to the noble species. (Clearly, the modern Steven loves Pussums - but is he imbuing the ancient vermin-hunters with a sentimentality that the Romans didn't really feel?)

 

Any thoughts on the Pussums of Rome?

 

If I'm not mistaken the cat was actually the pet of his Egyptian ex slave/wife Bethedsa (I think that's her name??) who brought Bast with her from Egypt?? And as we know cats in Egypt were worshipped like gods, anyone found to be hurting or treating a cat badly was in a whole lot of trouble. I think that in his books Saylor often remarks how strange his Roman visitors thought it to see a cat living the life of luxury in a Roman household.

 

EDIT:- It seems that Flavia and I are on the same wave length Oh and good to have you back Flav.

Edited October 11, 2007 by Gaius Paulinus Maximus

[Nephele]

Any thoughts on the Pussums of Rome?

 

I'm afraid it appears, Augusta, that the ancient Romans didn't have much regard for pussums(es?). I have an article written by classicist Mary M. Innes for the journal Greece & Rome in 1952. Titled "Deliciae Meae Puellae," She writes about the Romans' love of pets, chiefly pet birds of every description, followed by fish, exotics, and dogs.

 

But as for cats... Oh dear. She writes: "One notable omission from the list of pets, common or uncommon, is our ordinary, much loved cat. Though the cat was a sacred animal in Egypt, by the Romans it was despised, feared, and hunted, but not apparently domesticated."

 

I know that they were revered for catching vermin...

 

Apparently, the poor pussums weren't even cut any slack for mouse slaughter -- the Romans mostly employing domesticated weasels (or ferrets) for that job. Mary M. Innes cites Pliny, who "speaks of two kinds of mustela, one wild, the other which 'lives in our homes, and is constantly carrying its young from place to place, in its mouth', a habit which makes Plautus use them as a symbol of inconstancy; and we have already seen that Petronius mentions a tame mustela as a likely scapegoat in the case of the death of pet birds. Much later, Palladius recommends the use of catti in order to keep down moles. Nowhere, however, do we find affectionate language used of those creatures, such as our modern cat would surely merit..."

 

Those pictures that Flavia provided links to are also mentioned by Innes: "...and the mosaic of a cat, preserved at Naples, bears out this state of affairs, depicting, as it does, a fierce tortoise-shell monster, resembling the wild polecat, rather than the pensive Selima. Wild cats there were in plenty, in Italy, and it is clear that Columella regarded the felis as an enemy and a robber of hen-runs and dovecotes, even as Nemesian considered it a good target for a hunting-spear."

 

But surely even the most ailurophobic Roman would have melted at that picture of your Persian, Augusta.

 

And, not to be outdone, here's a pic of four members of my noble pack of minpins, fearlessly taking down a kitchen intruder,

[Gaius Octavius]

[but as for cats... Oh dear. She writes: "One notable omission from the list of pets, common or uncommon, is our ordinary, much loved cat. Though the cat was a sacred animal in Egypt, by the Romans it was despised, feared, and hunted, but not apparently domesticated." ]

 

I'm a Roman! Nice puppies, Domina Nomina. Bet the pussum(es?) stay clear.

Edited October 11, 2007 by Gaius Octavius

[Nephele]

I'm a Roman! Nice puppies, Domina Nomina.

 

Thank you. And, yes, they are definitely dogs of ancient Rome.

 

For, an anagram of "miniature pinscher" is: "unchristian empire."

 

-- Nephele

[The Augusta]

Thanks for the replies, guys. It is as I feared - the Romans were not cat-lovers. Now, I wonder if the fact that the feline nature does not take well to domination had something to do with their undesirability as 'pets'. Any thoughts on that one?

[Nephele]

Thanks for the replies, guys. It is as I feared - the Romans were not cat-lovers. Now, I wonder if the fact that the feline nature does not take well to domination had something to do with their undesirability as 'pets'. Any thoughts on that one?

 

Well, as noted by Mary M. Innes and others, exotic pets were all the rage in ancient Rome, and those critters (such as foxes and ichneumons) certainly didn't take well to domination, either. Innes notes that Martial writes of a number of these exotic pets in one of his epigrams ("If Marius has set his heart on a harmful mischievous ichneumon..."), and Innes describes this popular pet as being "of the same family as the mongoose, though useful for keeping down rats and snakes, does not seem to have been very generally domesticated in Italy."

 

I hesitate to speculate as to why cats were considered so undesirable. Instead, I'll give you a revealing anagram for your lovely "Persian cat," which is: "An epic star."

 

-- Nephele

[Gaius Octavius]

Thanks for the replies, guys. It is as I feared - the Romans were not cat-lovers. Now, I wonder if the fact that the feline nature does not take well to domination had something to do with their undesirability as 'pets'. Any thoughts on that one?

 

Yup! A cat has five points of attack; a dog, one. One can't go hunting with a pussums. Ever hear of a cat retrieving the 'Daily Roman'? Get your slippers? Angoras have a penchant for attacking bald heads! Cats are sneaky.

 

Except for Sylvester, the only good cat is a ...!

Edited October 12, 2007 by Gaius Octavius