Extinction Of The Western Empire

[caldrail]

Yes, to some extent. The same thing happened later to the spanish and portuguese. When the supply of gold from the americas dried up, their societies faded somewhat.

[DecimusCaesar]

The Eastern Roman Empire did make many attempts to save the Western Roman Empire. As has been already pointed out the Eastern Roman Empire sent a naval expedition to retake North Africa from the Vandals and recapture Carthage in 468. The Failure of the expedition and the sack of Rome by Gaiseric (which had occured earlier) put a big strain on the Western Roman Empire and seeing as a massive amount of the wealth needed to maintain the Western Empire came from its North African provinces the Western Empire was doomed to collapse. I think that the control of north Africa was incredibly important to the west, as it was in effect the equivlant of Egypt to the Eastern Empire, it was the Western Empire's bread basket and the source of its wealth. When Rome failed to retake Carthage I think that very little amount of help from the Eastern empire would have saved Rome.

[Gini]

Michael Grant's history of Rome is a good source. when Gaiseric invaded rome it was intially at the request of the late assasinated emperor's widow She lived to regret this! The only "army" to confront Gaiseric was Pope Leo! So much for the Roman army which incidentally was reputed to be 250,000 but of poor quality troops and not mobilised from what I gather - lots of pay disputes, loyalty issues

[Kosmo]

The option of the emerors to recruit more barbarians had also political connatations.

If you have a "national" army you surrender political power to her. When Rome was a republic this was not a problem, but when it was an empire it was so.

 

Also roman civilians had no military training, experience or weapons, so the call for a general rise would bring a crowd of unwilling, untrained, unequiped, moutinous soldiers.

The barbarian succesor kings used the general call to good effect. Even slaves had to came to the call under their owners. But for this Rome needed an ample political revolution that would have shattered her to pieces anyway.

 

The effect of internal conflict on defence of the West it's obvious after 406 when Gaul was overrun by many germanic tribes and the romans fought each other instead of the enemy.

They actually made deals with the "barbarians" to use them against each other in the conflict between Honorius and the usurper Constantine III.

After this final blow Britain, Gaul and Iberia were really no longer under roman authority and soon Africa will follow.

[Krackalackin]

The Eastern Roman Empire did make many attempts to save the Western Roman Empire. As has been already pointed out the Eastern Roman Empire sent a naval expedition to retake North Africa from the Vandals and recapture Carthage in 468. The Failure of the expedition and the sack of Rome by Gaiseric (which had occured earlier) put a big strain on the Western Roman Empire and seeing as a massive amount of the wealth needed to maintain the Western Empire came from its North African provinces the Western Empire was doomed to collapse. I think that the control of north Africa was incredibly important to the west, as it was in effect the equivlant of Egypt to the Eastern Empire, it was the Western Empire's bread basket and the source of its wealth. When Rome failed to retake Carthage I think that very little amount of help from the Eastern empire would have saved Rome.

 

That's very interesting. I never heard heard that before. I'd love to comment on this issue since it's so damn interesting but the problem is I don't believe in talking about something I really don't know a damn thing about. All I know is only slightly more than what they've taught me in school. But Rome in General is just so damn interesting.

[Neos Dionysos]

The Eastern Roman Empire did make many attempts to save the Western Roman Empire. As has been already pointed out the Eastern Roman Empire sent a naval expedition to retake North Africa from the Vandals and recapture Carthage in 468. The Failure of the expedition and the sack of Rome by Gaiseric (which had occured earlier) put a big strain on the Western Roman Empire and seeing as a massive amount of the wealth needed to maintain the Western Empire came from its North African provinces the Western Empire was doomed to collapse. I think that the control of north Africa was incredibly important to the west, as it was in effect the equivlant of Egypt to the Eastern Empire, it was the Western Empire's bread basket and the source of its wealth. When Rome failed to retake Carthage I think that very little amount of help from the Eastern empire would have saved Rome.

 

I swear they sent another force earlier before the sack of the city and they did so only after Carthage had fallen and suddenly now had to confront the reality that with Carthage thier control of the Eastern Med was threatened and while the Eastern Army in Sciliy detered the Vandals, it recreated unrest eventually on the island and they had to be recalled, mainly then because this was the East's only main army and either the Huns or the Persians were making moves... I'm going to find where I recently read this so help me LoL.

 

Michael Grant's history of Rome is a good source. when Gaiseric invaded rome it was intially at the request of the late assasinated emperor's widow She lived to regret this! The only "army" to confront Gaiseric was Pope Leo! So much for the Roman army which incidentally was reputed to be 250,000 but of poor quality troops and not mobilised from what I gather - lots of pay disputes, loyalty issues

 

250,000 is a gross overestimate. I doubt it was anything really over 25,000.

 

Honestly, I think Gaiseric was simply coming to Rome to take what he felt was rightfully his, the hand of Eudocia in marriage to his son Huneric. Years before, Aetius, (most likely with Galla Placidia's assistance), arranged that Huneric should marry Eudocia when she was like 7 or 8. Now they never had any real intention to marry her off, but Gaiseric did not realize the ploy and so thinking of the advantages of such a prized wife for his son, he had his son divorce his current wife, (sister or daughter of the Visigothic king), and went so far as to cut off her nose in disgrace. This caused the two former 'friends' to become bitter enemies and was a perfect division between the two and where now Rome had the upper hand to play the other off each other, much like they did continuiously and Aetius was a master of this.