The Originality Of Roman Military Attire.

[WotWotius]

I have recently been reading around the subject of the late republican legionary equipment, and it came to my attention that military attire during this period was not as innovative as I originally perceived it to be. For instance, the helmets used by legion were in fact modelled on Gallic designs, and both pugio and the gladius were of Spanish origin.

 

I am aware of the fact that much of standard issue legionary equipment (e.g. the scutum) was indeed solely a Roman idea, but I was just thrown by just how many military ideas that were copied and improved upon by the Romans.

 

I suppose it was the Romans

[Favonius Cornelius]

It's a well accepted fact that the Romans adopted military methods constantly.

 

The early armies of Rome resembled a Greek phalanx hybrid of a sort. Their shields began to resemble Celtic shields over time. Later chainmail was probably copied from the Celts as well.

Edited August 16, 2006 by Favonius Cornelius

[Primus Pilus]

Much of the early Roman army was based on the Greek phalanx systems, so much of the early armor and weapons was influenced in that manner. The scutum (large oblong shield) may look unique but it really is just a continued evolution of the earlier types.

 

While the introduction of the lorica segmentata is a bit mysterious, I have always been under the impression that this style of individually plated armor was a uniquely Roman invention.

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

most of the heavy artillery that the Romans used with such effectivness was also invented many years before like the ballista, onager and the scorpio, these were invented in around the early part of 400's b.c one of the main leaders in this field was Dionysius of Syracuse, he used these weapons of war in the many wars he fought against the Carthaginians

[Lost_Warrior]

I'm also under the impression that the Lorica Segmentata was a purely Roman invention.

 

That's what made the Romans so formiddable, they could take something from another culture, improve upon it and make it uniquely theres. If they saw a weapon or armor design which was practical, they took it, improved upon it, and then used it to defeat it those who originally used it

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

The scutum is a modified teutonic design. The triarii are a good example of the early hellenistic infantry. The Romans just clinged onto the good backup design.

[WotWotius]

The scutum is a modified teutonic design. The triarii are a good example of the early hellenistic infantry. The Romans just clinged onto the good backup design.

 

Yes, but unlike the standard Hellenistic soldiers, Triarii were much more flexiable; there purpose being to fill the gaps in the back ranks, and for this the needed to be reasonably mobile.

[Favonius Cornelius]

The scutum is a modified teutonic design. The triarii are a good example of the early hellenistic infantry. The Romans just clinged onto the good backup design.

 

 

Teutonic? What do you base this on? The Romans had a lot more Celtic contact.

[Primus Pilus]

The scutum is a modified teutonic design. The triarii are a good example of the early hellenistic infantry. The Romans just clinged onto the good backup design.

 

 

Teutonic? What do you base this on? The Romans had a lot more Celtic contact.

 

Indeed, the scutum seems to have been introduced well prior (perhaps as much as 2 centuries) to open Roman contact with Teutons.

[WotWotius]

The scutum seems to be a completly Roman design: it was not flat, as was the case with shields used by Celtic tribes, but semi-circular. Additionally, it seems to be different from the shields used by Italic tribes.

[Favonius Cornelius]

The scutum seems to be a completly Roman design: it was not flat, as was the case with shields used by Celtic tribes, but semi-circular. Additionally, it seems to be different from the shields used by Italic tribes.

 

 

I think it important to specify exact time periods before saying that. For instance, during the regal period I bet most shields resembled the Greek round shields. Later they became more oblong/oval, (by perhaps Celtic influence) and was similar throughout most other Italian shields with the exception of Eturia and the southern Greek cities. Later during the empire we see the large tower shield form, which curved slightly and was roughly square. (For the infantry that is, I believe cavalry retained the oblong shape).

 

Then towards the end of the empire the shields may have become all oblong/oval again

[WotWotius]

Sorry, I was refering to traditional oval shaped scutum of the late rupublican/imperial legionary.

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

Ok, I was thinking of the ones issued to post-marian legions.

 

My notecard says: "Scutum derived from celtic/teutonic. (Marian Reforms) P125 source 16.

 

 

If I find what book that is from I'll post it. The bibliography is somewhere...

Edited August 16, 2006 by Antiochus of Seleucia

[DecimusCaesar]

Much of the later Roman armour and weapons were based on stuff that the Romans had copied and adapted from their enemies such as helmets based on those worn by Sarmatians, Heavily armoured cavalry like those used by the Sassanids etc.