Rome And Usa.

[Callaecus]

It's impossible to compare today Rome with the USA. The latter's hegemony only has 50 years, whereas Rome's influence is still around, including in the American Republic. We need to wait 2000/3000 years to see if America's influence will be able to surpass the Roman one. For the moment, it's too early to say.

[The Augusta]

It's impossible to compare today Rome with the USA. The latter's hegemony only has 50 years, whereas Rome's influence is still around, including in the American Republic. We need to wait 2000/3000 years to see if America's influence will be able to surpass the Roman one. For the moment, it's too early to say.

 

Well, I think this sums everything up perfectly. Welcome, Callaecus!

[tflex]

"American superiority in all matters of science, economics, industry, politics, business, medicine, engineering, social life, social justice, and of course, the military was total and indisputable. Even Europeans suffering the pangs of wounded chauvinism looked on with awe at the brilliant example the United States had set for the world as the third millennium began." Tom Wolfe, Hooking Up (2000).

 

Science: Yes, even though the best Scientists were imported from Germany, Japan and Russia. But now they are Americans, so I'll give you that one.

 

Economic: Without a doubt.

 

Industry: Definately

 

Politics: This is manily becuase of the U.S. military, but if you take politics on it's own, then the U.S. certainly doesn't rank the highest.

 

Business: Definately

 

Medicine: Western Europe and Japan are slightly more advanced in that area.

 

Engineering: Western Europe and some Asian countries have surpassed the U.S. in this field.

 

Social Life: No way! I can tell you for sure from traveling around the world and living in the U.S., that America would rank the lowest in this category. This is the one category Rome had, but the U.S. doesn't have.

 

Social Justice: Agreed, but other countries are just as good.

 

Military: Absolutely

 

One thing I should note on the America/Europe comparison. I've lived in both Europe and the U.S., and I'm sure you've heard this saying before, but it sums it all up: Americans live to work, while Europeans work to live. This is so true, generally speaking Americans have a better work ethic, while Europeans tend to get more enjoyment out of life.

Edited December 16, 2006 by tflex

[Gaius Octavius]

The Romans certainly believed that the might of Rome would never fall. Yet many Americans believe the same thing. I personally hope that the inevitable decline of The U.S. is less end of Roman Empire and more the end of the British empire. (I know Its like comparing apples and oranges)

 

How do you guys think its gonna end?

 

I don't think that we think of ourselves as an empire. We certainly don't think of ourselves as the suzerain of Havana or the world. We simply have a proto-moron running the show now; and he has failed at all his masters have him instructed on. I don't think that any American wants to run the show anywhere

[Ludovicus]

The Romans certainly believed that the might of Rome would never fall. Yet many Americans believe the same thing. I personally hope that the inevitable decline of The U.S. is less end of Roman Empire and more the end of the British empire. (I know Its like comparing apples and oranges)

 

How do you guys think its gonna end?

 

I don't think that we think of ourselves as an empire. We certainly don't think of ourselves as the suzerain of Havana or the world. We simply have a proto-moron running the show now; and he has failed at all his masters have him instructed on. I don't think that any American wants to run the show anywhere

 

 

 

Perhaps if we thought of ourselves here in the US as being led by the nose by politicians with imperial agendas we'd be better prepared to defend ourselves from their distasterous policies. In 2002, the US had troops in 156 countries, bases in 63. We have a torture prision on Cuba soil that Cubans have no power to regulate or close. Maybe we need to think more deeply here in the US on the idea of empire. Maybe we need to remember that in order to become an independent nation we had to defeat the British imperial stranglehold on us.

Edited December 19, 2006 by Ludovicus

[Moonlapse]

There is a fundamental belief that we are 'right'. They are evil. We are supremely justified to intervene for the good of the whole world, because we are right, and anyone who tries to limit us is corrupted. You can't let people decide their own fates, because people are stupid and those who distrust authority are nuts. Everything must be predictable and quantifiable so that it can be managed. By control and management a system can be created that is perfect according to those who created it. If you are discontent, something is wrong with you. Opposition is evil and it must be crushed.

[Gaius Octavius]

There is a fundamental belief that we are 'right'. They are evil. We are supremely justified to intervene for the good of the whole world, because we are right, and anyone who tries to limit us is corrupted. You can't let people decide their own fates, because people are stupid and those who distrust authority are nuts. Everything must be predictable and quantifiable so that it can be managed. By control and management a system can be created that is perfect according to those who created it. If you are discontent, something is wrong with you. Opposition is evil and it must be crushed.

 

I don't believe that all of us feel that way. The small minority of neo-con job artists, who don't want to pay the taxes (or any, for that matter) to fight wars ( Guns and butter, remember?), have gained control of the U.S. government. The Coward who nominally runs the country, is trying to benefit his foul 'buddies', i.e., Bechtel, Halliburton and that group that his daddy is head of. Supposedly, 5% of the U.S. pays the most in taxes. Unfortunately, the rest pay their taxes in blood.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Supposedly, 5% of the U.S. pays the most in taxes. Unfortunately, the rest pay their taxes in blood.

 

95% of the US have paid their taxes in blood?? LOL.

[Moonlapse]

I'm just saying that I think the current overall situation is a result of that mindset. I apologize for being ambiguous. I actually can't think of any recent presidents that are an exception. Some people hate Bush and love Clinton, or vice versa, which I don't really understand unless I disregard actions and focus on party names.

[Ludovicus]

Supposedly, 5% of the U.S. pays the most in taxes. Unfortunately, the rest pay their taxes in blood.

 

95% of the US have paid their taxes in blood?? LOL.

 

 

How many US millionaires are dying in Iraq? Forget about US millionaires--how many sons and daughters of US members of Congress are fighting in Iraq? Four maybe?

 

I don't know about the 95%, but I agree with Gaius that in the US we are now ruled by the worst people-- the neocons and theocons who have helped the wealthiest to escape their taxes and who brought war to Iraq based on a hill of lies. During WWII sacrifices were asked of and delivered by citizens of all classes. Here's one of Franklin Roosevelts's sons, thanks to Wikipedia:

 

"Elliott Roosevelt was a bombadier in the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) during World War II. He flew a P-38 Lightning in the North African campaign of November 1942. As an Army photo reconnaissance pilot, he and the men in his unit also played a key role in the D-Day landings."

 

From the Nation magazine:

Franklin Roosevelt [said] during World War II, "I don't want to see a single war millionaire created in the United States as a result of this world disaster."

 

What a different age we are in today.

Edited December 21, 2006 by Ludovicus

[Gaius Octavius]

Supposedly, 5% of the U.S. pays the most in taxes. Unfortunately, the rest pay their taxes in blood.

 

95% of the US have paid their taxes in blood?? LOL.

 

Unfortunately, some can 'read' words, but have no comprehension - as in the case of the Philippics, (which I will address anon).

 

The answer to your inane question is: YES!

 

______________

 

M'lapse: I did not find your comment ambiguous.

Edited December 21, 2006 by Gaius Octavius

[M. Porcius Cato]

Then please explain how 95% of the US population (i.e., 285 million) paid their taxes in blood. I'd love to hear this.

 

Far from being inane, the question points to the rampant innumeracy that is endemic to political propaganda (both left-wing and right-wing). Take Ludo's claim that "only" 4 children of US Congressmen are fighting in Iraq (it's actually 7, but for argument's sake).

 

To understand this number, you have to put it in context. Currently, there are 535 members of Congress. Assuming that they are no more or less fertile than the rest of the population (i.e., averaging 0.9 children), then, we can estimate the number of Congressional kids who could eventually serve to be 435. Thus, about 1% of Congressional kids who could eventually serve actually are serving in Iraq. How does this compare to the general population? Currently, there are 152,000 troops deployed in Iraq. Using the same assumptions for the general population as for Congress (for this comparison, it doesn't really matter what the assumptions are as long as they're the same), the number of kids who could eventually serve is 34.5 million. Thus, less than .5% of the children of the general US population who could eventually serve actually is serving in Iraq.

 

Thus, even using Ludovicus' wrong figures, if your mom or dad is serving in Congress, your chances of serving in Iraq have been doubled. Using correct figures, your chances of serving in Iraq would be almost quadrupled. So, please, spare us this nonsense about Congressional kids shirking military service--Congressional kids are much more likely to serve than everyone else.

 

More generally, quit throwing around bogus numbers, and start evaluating the numbers that others throw around.

[Pantagathus]

Supposedly, 5% of the U.S. pays the most in taxes. Unfortunately, the rest pay their taxes in blood.

 

95% of the US have paid their taxes in blood?? LOL.

I paid mine in lymph

[Gaius Octavius]

MPC:

 

Let's start with your 'bogus' numbers business. There are more than 535 members of the U.S. Congress. Surprised? Now you can look up how many there are! Others can nit-pick also. Do your numbers apply to the members of the other two branches of the U.S. government and their spawn and flunkies, i.e. & e.g., prez chinney and the National Guard AWOL? Afganicus & Iraqicus? roberts, alito (the breath), thomas and scalia (the stair), et al. "We're not going to get involved in nation building" "Mission Accomplished!" Do you know that if any sailor, of his own volition, so much as waived a handkerchief from a bridge, that he would be keel hauled? Those gobs will now get another chance, this time for a Mission Accomplish-able Task.

 

You simply cannot think outside of your small world and understand the essence of what Ludovicus and I wrote. So, tell all, how many of these seven are bouncing around in unarmoured HumVees? How many are staff officers or in the J.A.G. corps or keeping a sharp lookout on the Florida coast or safely ensconced in the Green Zone?

 

Do you know that the Killed in Action count does not include those wounded and who later died in hospital?

Do you know that our coerced allies KIA or died in hospital are not counted? Do you know that those suffering shell shock are mocked and ostracised by their officers and non-coms? How many of them are the spawn of congressmen? Who said (aside from yourself) that anyone is 'shirking' military service? You have an 'endemic' knack for interposing what is between your ears unto the writings of others.

 

When the Great Unwashed return from Iwreck, their jobs are gone; their debts are due and their health insurance is history. Same for the Congressional spawn?

 

After you have adjusted your finessed bogus numbers and tried to grasp the essence of things, have at me.

 

P.S.

RE-read and understand what Cicero tells you in the Second Philippic. The Windbag is coming.

 

P.P.S.

The last elected president did as much with a couple of rockets and no casualties.

Where is Osama? Having lunch with Daddy!?!?

 

P.P.P.S.

Nit-pik and transpose away!

 

P.P.P.P.S.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. And this I sincerely mean.

 

Edited December 21, 2006 by Gaius Octavius

[Primus Pilus]

Even though the obvious bulk of the armed services is made up of the common masses (and the equally obvious proportions of wounded and killed among those who have served), it should also be quite obvious that the greatest majority of Americans haven't "paid in blood" in Iraq. To suggest that the masses pay in blood while the aristocracy manipulates our lives is not correct. I am not in any way discounting the hardship of those who have served on extended tours, but only pointing out that applying such magnanimous hardship to all Americans due to class structure is simply wrong. I am quite middle class and neither I nor any member of my extended local peer group have yet to pay in blood. To accept being equated with those who have paid in such a manner would be shameful on my part.

 

(Note: I understand the underlying point that "the common man pays while the aristocracy plays", but we should be mindful to speak plainly so that such tangents to the original point are limited.)