FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Producing your own goods means you have to pay for your worker's wages, healthcare, etc... as well as lease/own real estate for factories/facilities, which has more insurance costs, utilities costs, etc... So 'they' decide it's more profitable to make that some other countries problems. Sadly, thats where foreign born immigrants come in...although its not a bad thing when they actually live and act closely to the American lifestyle. As for comparing America to Rome, I think you have a better chance of comparing the Founding Father's era to Ancient Rome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Favonius Cornelius Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 You know what, I'm calling that belief out. I think that a country can pay people a livable wage and give them the basics of life without going out of business, without economic ruin. I think the excuse of not being able to afford to pay for such things is a cowardly lie at worst, or a misconception just as liberal fears of reducing welfare were misconceived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Diocletian's (and others) diluting the gold content of Roman coinage was akin to the Federal Reserve pumping dollars into the US economy. The result was and is inflation on a grand scale. The so called 'free trade' in the world today is really an exportation of middle class jobs. A company sets up its facilities abroad and re-imports their products. This is not the same as importing the products another nation produces on its own account. This is really a sort of mercantilism. The price of the product does not decrease as can be seen in the case of sneakers. The prices of truly foreign made products does decrease in reference to home made products, but there is also a corresponding and proportional decrease in the quality of the products. The Romans imported much of their wheat, luxury goods, spices, wine, etc., without a corresponding increase in their exports, resulting in the Diocletian problem and price fixing. The Romans did not encourage manufactures for both home consumption and export. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 I think the excuse of not being able to afford to pay for such things is a cowardly lie at worst, or a misconception It's no lie that the COE won't be able to afford his 5th Porsche if the plant is kept INCONUS! My dear Favonius, you haven't been exposed much to the inner workings of Corporate Capitalism have you. It's up to us as consumers folks.... For starters don't buy food that was grown/raised outside of a 100 mile radius from where you live if you can help it, refuse to buy crap that's hauled in from halfway around the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 The prices of truly foreign made products does decrease in reference to home made products, but there is also a corresponding and proportional decrease in the quality of the products. But only for a time! Think about Japan, after WWII when their economy was being rebuilt all the cheap stuff that came out of there was considered crap. Overtime their expertice grew and they started overtaking in quality countries who farmed out to them (in the name of saving money) because the countries who farmed out to them lost their professional base and expertice. A stunning example was Browning Firearms. The jewel of Belgium... Some of the finest shotguns & rifles made. However, my Browing A-bolt deer rifle made in Japan in the 80's is now more sought after than one made in Belgium because the experts realized that the Japanese made a more precise rifled barrel! I always come back to this quote from Douglas Adam's Dirk Gently' Holistic Detective Agency: "The electronic I Ching calculator was badly made. It had probably been manufactured in whichever of the South-East Asian countries was busy tooling up to do to South Korea what South Korea was busy doing to Japan." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dalby Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 It's up to us as consumers folks.... For starters don't buy food that was grown/raised outside of a 100 mile radius from where you live if you can help it, refuse to buy crap that's hauled in from halfway around the world. That would be fine if it wasn't for Mrs D's irrational liking for oranges, bananas and kiwi fruits. As for me, I have to make an exception for Gorgonzola. No one anywhere makes cheese quite like Gorgonzola. I think that's all really. Oh, no, there is one other thing. Jack Daniel's. Are you going to deprive me of that, Pantagathus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 (edited) That would be fine if it wasn't for Mrs D's irrational liking for oranges, bananas and kiwi fruits. As for me, I have to make an exception for Gorgonzola. No one anywhere makes cheese quite like Gorgonzola. I think that's all really. Oh, no, there is one other thing. Jack Daniel's. Are you going to deprive me of that, Pantagathus? No of course not Andrew! I said "If you can help it" perhaps I should have been a little bit more bombastic with my caveat! You think I would deprive myself of Belgian ale? or Spanish wine? or Pimenton? or like you: Gorganzola!? BTW, There is a product in the markets here labelled 'gorganzola' made by the Amish. Makes me chuckle every time. I talk of staples only, not specialty foods. Edited August 4, 2006 by Pantagathus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Pantagathus, I was speaking of the 'present'. Add TV's and cars to your list. And I know that the orientals are not slackers. Dr. Dalby, you enforce my point. The gorgonzola making Russians did not establish a factory in Italy and thus drive their manufacture into oblivion. For myself, how could I ever deprive myself of ark&sass gator tail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Pantagathus, I was speaking of the 'present'. And I know that the orientals are not slackers. I know you were, but the present will be the past in the future and our outlook in hindsight will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlapse Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 You guys shouldn't tempt me to start posting here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Pantagathus, I was speaking of the 'present'. And I know that the orientals are not slackers. I know you were, but the present will be the past in the future and our outlook in hindsight will change. You managed to omit: "If hindsight were foresight...." You guys shouldn't tempt me to start posting here. You are hereby authorized to be fully tempted. Whatever sanity or insanity you bring on all's heads, will, of course, be truly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Emperor Nick Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 I was just wondering how some people think that the USA is a new roman empire. I think the european union is more like a roman empire than the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 I was just wondering how some people think that the USA is a new roman empire. I think the european union is more like a roman empire than the USA. Most striking aspect: Well the US like Imperium Romanum has the best military in the world and exerts it influence by agressive means. European Union,meanwhile, lauds themselves for trying to be diplomatic all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil25 Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 Briefly (and hopefully ironically) the USA is a concealed monarchy (President) pretending to be a republic/democracy. It is expansionist, the most dynamic and militaristic power in its world. It has had and retains an overseas empire (which once included the Phillipines, Cuba etc and still includes Puerto Rico and Havana. Power largely depends on wealth, it has faction rather than party politics, is deeply corrupt. It has a Senate which sits in a classical-style building. It has the same sort of relationship with Britain as Rome had with Greece - condescending but slightly envious. A young, thrusting nation, aware of what it owes to an older, mature more deeply cultural mother-land, from which it derives many of its forms of Government, language, life-style and tradition. The "barbarians" are coming in to destroy westernism - directly from Mexico, and through legal and illegal immigration in its European sphere of influence. Oh and it's currently ruled by a man widely perceived as insane. (Oh for a Suetonius!!) Now if THAT doesn't get this thread boiling, nothing will!! Phil (PS please don't take what I have said (too) seriously - I am a great USAphile. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludovicus Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 (edited) I was just wondering how some people think that the USA is a new roman empire. I think the european union is more like a roman empire than the USA. The European Union doesn't have a stockpile of atomic weapons that it uses to threaten the world. The EU doesn't invade (at least not yet) other countries. It also doesn't seek to secretly destable unfriendly countries as the US has done in Latin America and elsewhere. The EU isn't constantly at war to maintain its power as the US has been since the end of World War II. The heart of the definition of empire is power over non-nationals, extra territorial power. The EU may evolve into an entity that fits the definitiion of imperial power. But without an army it doesn't seem to be there yet. While the US, sadly, has been there since 1898. Edited November 14, 2006 by Ludovicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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