WotWotius Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 When a typical Celtic entered the battlefield he was more than likely to arrive with a sword. However, unlike the Roman gladius these swords were much larger (roughly 90cm), and were designed primarily for slashing any unfortunate individual to get in its way. Though what I would like to know is whether or not these swords were effective on the battlefield; surely its user would have to have plenty of space to manoeuvre in order to use them to the fullest capacity. What are your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochus of Seleucia Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 That's why the gladius is so much better: you can keep a tight formation, attack quickly, do major organ damage, and wield it with ease. Speed is the essence of war, and large swords are quite cumbersome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 what is the quotation " the Roman sword can both stab and cut, but the Celtic sword can only cut, and that needs a little room", I paraphrase badly, but I think you have it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotWotius Posted July 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Polybius also coments on the effectivness of Celtic swords: '...they (the swords) are effective only at the first blow; thereafter they are blunt and bent so the warrior has not time to wedge it against the ground and straighten it with his foot, the second blow is quite ineffective.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Polybius also coments on the effectivness of Celtic swords: '...they (the swords) are effective only at the first blow; thereafter they are blunt and bent so the warrior has not time to wedge it against the ground and straighten it with his foot, the second blow is quite ineffective.' If we are also to beleive that a Legionary could stab twice or possibly three times within a counter stroke from a long sword then the tactical advantadge is huge. Only the highest ranking Celts , it is suggested, had swords that were of a quality to sustain usage. A short sword is not subject to the same bending moments on impact.Does anyone have notes on the quality of smithying at this time? Certainly the Wealden Iron industry in Kent was most thoroughly organised by the Romans, one suspects that perhaps factory controlled production for gladii was more consistent than bespoke production of longswords for the elite and village smithy output for everyone else . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochus of Seleucia Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 what is the quotation " the Roman sword can both stab and cut, but the Celtic sword can only cut, and that needs a little room", I paraphrase badly, but I think you have it there. I bleieve that is Polybius, I have the quote somewhere on my computer but cannot find it, and you paraphrasing is very very close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 If an enemy slashes with a sword, he leaves himself open to a jab. A jab does not open the body to a counter stroke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 If an enemy slashes with a sword, he leaves himself open to a jab. A jab does not open the body to a counter stroke. The underarm is exposed-most dangerous to ones health and vitality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotWotius Posted July 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 (edited) Does anyone have notes on the quality of smithying at this time? I dipped into a book that I have on classical warfare (great toilet reader by-the-way), and I have summed what little it had to say on the matter. Excavations at Alesia show that Polybius' claim may be unfounded as many of the Gallic swords found there were made of high-quality iron, and seemed to be extremely effectual weapons. Edited July 30, 2006 by WotWotius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longbow Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 I find it hard to beleive that every Celtic warrior was armed with a Longsword,swords were expensive and difficult to make.I'd be more inclined to think the majority of the warriors were armed with Spears,Saex's and Axes,those types of weapons are more affective and much easier to mass produce. Kirkburn sword. The Tarves horde. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 I find it hard to beleive that every Celtic warrior was armed with a Longsword,swords were expensive and difficult to make.I'd be more inclined to think the majority of the warriors were armed with Spears,Saex's and Axes,those types of weapons are more affective and much easier to mass produce.Kirkburn sword. The Tarves horde. Thats a very good point, in fact you'd expect a lot of spear armed "lightweights" with saex as a personal side arm and the "toffs" with good quality longswords. The saex was available in every conceivable size, from food knife to "something for the weeekend raid". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotWotius Posted July 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 I find it hard to beleive that every Celtic warrior was armed with a Longsword,swords were expensive and difficult to make.I'd be more inclined to think the majority of the warriors were armed with Spears,Saex's and Axes,those types of weapons are more affective and much easier to mass produce. Kirkburn sword. The Tarves horde. Thats a very good point, in fact you'd expect a lot of spear armed "lightweights" with saex as a personal side arm and the "toffs" with good quality longswords. The saex was available in every conceivable size, from food knife to "something for the weeekend raid". True. You would also expect to see the poorest celts armed with slings and various other skirmish weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlapse Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Polybius writes during the second century BC. This is a period when Celtic swords had transitioned from shorter (~60 - 75cm) cut and stab types to long (~85 - 90cm) slashing types. The earlier swords, Halstatt and La Tene, were 'generally' of high quality. I say generally because the number of superb quality (close to steel) swords found are thought to have belonged to warrior nobility in central Europe. They certainly had the knowledge and capability to create excellent stabbing weapons, at least in earlier times, but I'm not informed enough to say why later examples were much longer and of poorer quality - to the point where historians like Polybius can generalize them as being nearly useless in battle. Not many surviving examples reflect this level of quality. P.S. The use of bronze swords was apparently still prevalent even during the iron age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longbow Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 The Celtic daggers look like they could do the job in a shield to shield situation . Dont know how you would hold this type but it seems to be a popular design. Hallstatt daggers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princeps Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 (edited) what is the quotation " the Roman sword can both stab and cut, but the Celtic sword can only cut, and that needs a little room", I paraphrase badly, but I think you have it there. "The slashing blows favoured by the Dacians was far inferior to the stabbing motion of our own Legionnaries" Also paraphrased. I think a few of the Generals said similar things though, I believe it. Edited July 30, 2006 by Princeps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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