Thumbless Soldiers

[Emperor Goblinus]

In order to get out of military service, many men would cut off their thumbs. The brother emperors, Valentinian I and Valens, did away with this loophole, and men had to serve, thumbs or no thumbs. Does anyone exactly how these men were trained to use their weapons, and how effective they were?

[Lost_Warrior]

Try this: tape your thumb to your hand, then try to tie your shoe. That's about how effective the thumbless solders probably were

[Emperor Goblinus]

I was thinking that they could have wrist blades like the clone assassins.

 

But seriously, someone could have tied a blade to their arm and they could have fought like that.

[Neos Dionysos]

I beleive they were trained and used as logistical personal. So supply masters, manual labor, paymasters... this way if they fill those jobs up, then soldiers who are already there and have thier thumbs can be moved to frontline units and used in combat.

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

I beleive they were trained and used as logistical personal. So supply masters, manual labor, paymasters... this way if they fill those jobs up, then soldiers who are already there and have thier thumbs can be moved to frontline units and used in combat.

 

The problem with that is logistical officers needed literacy. Now how many thumbless draftees were literate?

Edited April 23, 2006 by FLavius Valerius Constantinus

[Lost_Warrior]

That does make sense though. They could also have been archers. You don't need thumbs for archery. Probably don't need them to fire a ballista either. But it would be exceedingly difficult to use a sword without thumbs, even with the blade was strapped to the wrist.

[Skarr]

That does make sense though. They could also have been archers. You don't need thumbs for archery. Probably don't need them to fire a ballista either. But it would be exceedingly difficult to use a sword without thumbs, even with the blade was strapped to the wrist.

 

I do think you need thumbs for archery as without them, no doubt you could launch an arrow but you wouldn't be able to hit anything with any level of accuracy.

 

All archery techniques in ancient times involved the extensive use of the thumb in the drawing motion and arrows were lined up to be shot over the thumb.

 

Even in ancient India, there is a story about the famous hero Arjuna, an archer without compare (from the Mahabharata - an epic on a famous battle that took place thousands of years ago) who is threatened by a rival, a young boy with exceptional skill who has also mastered the art of archery. The only way this hero triumphs is by having his teacher demand the boy's thumb as a form of "payment" for the instruction that has been granted to the boy. Without the thumb, the boy cannot hit anything, as he cannot aim properly.

[Lost_Warrior]

There are different methods you can learn that don't require thumbs however. You don't *have* to line the arrow up over your thumb, and a wrist strap can be used (you aren't supposed to actually grip the bow anyway. I do, but I'm bad ). I can achieve pretty good accuracy though, and I don't use my thumb in drawing the bow at all, I use three fingers. While it may not have been "standard practice" I maintain that it could definitely be learned. (I know someone with no use of her arms and she still manages to shoot in gym class---she uses her feet. So it is possible.)

[caldrail]

That does make sense though. They could also have been archers. You don't need thumbs for archery. Probably don't need them to fire a ballista either. But it would be exceedingly difficult to use a sword without thumbs, even with the blade was strapped to the wrist.

 

I'd like to see you pull a bow without a thumb! Not the actual pulling hand, that requires the two strongest fingers. Its the bow hand. You're going to get bruises on your forehead without thumbs.

[Lost_Warrior]

You wouldnt be able to cut the thumb off *so* completely that there wasn't any little divit there. And again, wrist strap. A *normal* bow would be difficult, yes. But it would be possible to adapt it (even by strapping it to one's hand) very easily. It'd be much easier to adapt a bow to a thumbless man, than to adapt a sword.

 

ALSO (and I didn't think of this before) a man looking to avoid military service would have likely cut off his right thumb (left thumbs aren't needed as much in the military as right ones, and would only cause a problem in holding a shield most likely). A bow is generally held in the left hand. Unless they cut off both thumbs, which I don't think they would have done, as it is even stupider than cutting off one or the other. (Besides being difficult to hold the hatchet without the one thumb that you already cut off )

[longbow]

you aren't supposed to actually grip the bow anyway.

 

True,but you still need your thumb to hold the Bow steady.

I had a go at loosing an arrow whilst ignoring my thumbs and the arrow nearly landed in my foot,i wont be trying it again in a hurry But maybe with practice someone could learn to use one of the smaller Bows (im using a Longbow) to get a couple of accurate shots off with the use of wrist straps which you mentioned.But soldier/archers could be drawing the Bow hundreds of times in some battles,i dont think that would be possible for a thumbless archer.

 

Longbow

[PerfectimusPrime]

I doubt that the archers needed to be exceptionally accurate, shooting at the direction of the enemy, with a proper arc was suffiecent. IMO.

Edited April 28, 2006 by PerfectimusPrime

[longbow]

Yeah,but could they do it without thumbs?

[Spurius]

Just like Neos Dionysos wrote: Who says there were employed as frontline fighting men?

 

Wanna shoot things thumbless? Here, use a ballista or scorpion.

Wanna swing a sword? The metal smiths can always use another warm body to carry blades or sharpen on the grindstone.

Wana aid your fellows? You can go ahead and scout and lay out the new campsite. You can also do latine, repair or cooking duty. Also ox traces and tame horses can be held without thumbs while driving a cart or leading a mule.

 

And if you ever have to swing a sword in an emergency, an underhand grip and thrust while balancing a shield against your other arm can keep you alive until help comes.

[caldrail]

I doubt that the archers needed to be exceptionally accurate, shooting at the direction of the enemy, with a proper arc was suffiecent. IMO.

 

No self respecting archer would want to be inaccurate. Unlike muskets, which were inherently awful, the arrow is a very accurate weapon indeed, as demonstrated by primitive cultures since the year dot.