Primus Pilus Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 PP--you do know that the US gets most of its oil from Canada and Mexico, right? Last I checked, the US gets the majority (if not the vast majority) of its petroleum from North and South America. In fact, I think we even get about as much oil from the Virgin Islands, Norway and Britain as we do from Iraq and Kuwait (which supply us with only a relatively small proportion of oil). If we were just after oil, we'd be better off toppling Chavez than Saddam Hussein. (Come to think of it...) Yes I'm well aware of this... US oil imports My point was that with the availability of more oil sources, or the development of alternative fuels, without oil as an export product the stability of the middle east could be even more unpredictable than it currently is. Perhaps the lack of said product would reduce foriegn interest in their government operations thereby reducing tension, but its difficult to see that happening considering the Israel factor. A bit more worrisome to me than some of the banter going on here about George W Bush (considering he won't be in office in 2 years anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 [A bit more worrisome to me than some of the banter going on here about George W Bush (considering he won't be in office in 2 years anyway) Just curious, if Jeb runs and wins (especially if it's 'close') will that raise any eyebrows that the Republityrannicrats just maybe have America by the proles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Clodius Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 In regards to the bible, which has been often quoted here, I will not base my life on a collection of writings that were written over a period of time by people who thought god was angry when it thundered! Abortion. Who am I, as a man, to presume to legislate the female reproductive organs, or, who are you for that matter? As for homosexuals, I think the roman legions had it right with Fustuarium! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 [A bit more worrisome to me than some of the banter going on here about George W Bush (considering he won't be in office in 2 years anyway) Just curious, if Jeb runs and wins (especially if it's 'close') will that raise any eyebrows that the Republityrannicrats just maybe have America by the proles? I'd be a bit surprised if Jeb runs, but if he does and somehow manages to win in spite of his brother... its even more telling that the Democratic party has absolutely no clue how to appeal to middle America. The farther the Democrats lean left to counter the Republican right side base, the more trouble it at least seems to have appealing to the voting populace. It's sad that our two party system seems to have such a tiny undefined middle ground (which I think would appeal to the vast majority). Though I suppose having a candidate with a dynamic, charismatic personality and platform may help win the appeal of the masses. With that said... I don't really see Jeb running, but wouldn't a Jeb vs. Hillary election be fun? I'd expect a military coup eventually from such a development. I'm voting libertarian next time anyway. You guys can have your religious nuts, gay marriages, illegal immigrants, welfare systems, national health care, social security, oil profits, etc. Just give me a rifle, a beer, a slab of meat and low taxes and I'm happy. /exits thread PS. Try to be civil to one another guys, just because its the arena shouldn't give free reign to abusive and/or crude language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) wouldn't a Jeb vs. Hillary election be fun? I'd expect a military coup eventually from such a development. Mo Roca did a hilarious commentary on CBS Sunday morning a while ago talking about the scary new trend of American dynasticism in which he invisioned the following: 4 years of Bush (GHWB) 8 years of Clinton (Bill) 8 years of Bush (GWB) 8 years of Clinton (Hilary) 8 years of Bush (Jeb) & then Chelsea & on of the Bush's get married and usher in a new era of the "Republicrat" dynasty... /exits thread for the last time... Edited July 13, 2006 by Pantagathus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Abortion. Who am I, as a man, to presume to legislate the female reproductive organs, or, who are you for that matter? As for homosexuals, I think the roman legions had it right with Fustuarium! If you don't have a right to compel women what to do with their reproductive organs, on what basis do you have a right to compel men what to do with their reproductive organs? Really, Clodius, your namesake would be horrified! I'm voting libertarian next time anyway. I really wish the Libertarians would quit being so kooky so I could vote for them too. There's clearly a large number of Democrats who value civil liberties and fairness in government over the redistribution of wealth and a large number of true Goldwater Republicans who think the religious right is as scary as they are nuts (Goldwater himself was warning about these kooks back in 1980). The opportunity exists for a viable and valuable third party: it's just a matter of finding the district in the country that could feasibly field a candidate that could reach out to these voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Favonius Cornelius Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I really wish the Libertarians would quit being so kooky so I could vote for them too. Heh ya, you guys need to get rid of the anarchist fringe folks and you might have something. As far as the Dems leaving to the left, I don't see that much. If anything the Democratic party has made a number of concessions and will have to make more in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I must say...from all the liberal comments I've seen... you people are vicious... no wonder there has never been an extreme leftist liberal as president in these few decades. Tflex is a conservative...so what...attack for his views but not as whole person for some of those out there. Anyways, with the stupid talk of oil, let me say a little fact. The reason I see why America suffers over oil is that the damn corporations like Exxon won't budge on creating more refineries...so they can get more money from high prices... Not to mention, the damn Canadians have more than enough oil in their ground to supply the whole world for decades... Forget Canada...people say oil is unrenewable... if so, there's still a hell lot of it out there still untapped(courtesy of the History Channel documentaries). Vicious? Obviously you haven't read your own very civil comment. Ramses: Where do you come off taking on the mantle of morals and patriotism for your own clique of left over Dixiecrats who don't believe in Liberty for all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rameses the Great Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) Er, did you actually read what I quoted above? I quoted the Bible, and you still don't believe me? What, do you doubt God's own hand? The Bible says that Sodom was destroyed because it didn't help the poor - who are you to call God a liar? Ahh, are you judging me? I actually had this lesson not to long ago. I use the King James version of the bible. I guess Sodomy does not mean homosexuality. Who's bragging? And do you have statistics on Republican v. Democrat charity, or are you making this up as you go? I suspect the latter. Suspect what you want but doing so, you're calling me a liar. Jesus was a communist. Care to tell me if he was part of the bourgeoise who had everything and gave nothing or the protelorait who had nothing and gave everything. You're wrong biblically on both accounts. The Bible makes it very clear that unborn children are do not have souls and the Bible does not outright condemn homosexuality in any passage. Of course it has a soul. It does not have a spirit until baptism but they have a soul. Animals have souls and so do unborn children. You think my philosophy is backwards, in actuality it is your's. You have unhidden feelings about the Republican party and I attest the Liberal party. Did you notice Communism does not work? Please I suggest you read Animal Farm. Anyways I heard Exon mobile was making so much money they gave the manager a 400 million dollar raise! People decided to boycott Exon as they should. Not to long ago the Saudi's said they see no reason to change the prices. They think they are reasonable. Venezuala had tons of oil, America should boycott the Saudi oil and go for a more conventional aproach. Madness yes, but we will severely undercut their economy. Edited July 13, 2006 by Rameses the Great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Favonius Cornelius Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 PP--you do know that the US gets most of its oil from Canada and Mexico, right? Last I checked, the US gets the majority (if not the vast majority) of its petroleum from North and South America. In fact, I think we even get about as much oil from the Virgin Islands, Norway and Britain as we do from Iraq and Kuwait (which supply us with only a relatively small proportion of oil). If we were just after oil, we'd be better off toppling Chavez than Saddam Hussein. (Come to think of it...) Yes I'm well aware of this... US oil imports My point was that with the availability of more oil sources, or the development of alternative fuels, without oil as an export product the stability of the middle east could be even more unpredictable than it currently is. Perhaps the lack of said product would reduce foriegn interest in their government operations thereby reducing tension, but its difficult to see that happening considering the Israel factor. A bit more worrisome to me than some of the banter going on here about George W Bush (considering he won't be in office in 2 years anyway). By the way, it matters not at all that we don't get a ton of oil from Iraq or the middle east right now. Everyone knows the limited supply of oil, and adventurism in obtaining more is a long term goal of the oil conglomerates which own and control the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Ramses the Great: I know what sodomy is, but would you please tell me what gomorrahry is? My learned friend, since homosexuality is of so great a concern to you, what shall be done with Pres chinney's daughter? Whatever shall be done? Rev. Ramses, when was the last time you gave so much as a kind thought to some Viet -Nam veteran as he lay on a sidewalk? As noted earlier, the U.S., by the supreme law of the land, is not a religious state. Don't you get that? By the way, whose religion should be used? Mine? Nah, let's use one those rackets run by the Society of Holy Immaculate Telereverendos. S.H.I.T. for short. Something tells me that if the state of affairs that existed at the founding existed now, you wouldn't be allowed to vote - ever. The good folk who go to the third world to help people are those wild eyed Liberals you decry. It's the republik partie's pukey preppy proctocrats who make the kind of lettuce, going to Iraq for no reason, that 90% of Americans only dream of. Yes, yes, we all know that all welfare checks go to firewater. Helps my ADM, so I'm happy. Now, like every god fearing, flag waving, lapel junk wearer, you don't mind corporate welfare or giving taxpayer money to those needy folk for not farming. Nor do I, for the matter. My Halliburton, Exxon and power company stocks are doing just excellently. By the way, I have arranged matters so that I don't pay any taxes. As a matter of fact, I get a check back from the state. Makes me a happy sailor. Buy the way, did you ever in your life hear of something called the 'National Debt'? Your gang of burglars have run it up to $12 trillion and counting, or some $300,000 plus per household. Ha! And you owe some of that to me! Not to worry, I really do pay a 'tax' at the candy store. It's called inflation. (Watch out! There is an ambush here.) I certainly feel badly for your family, but the Canadian system of health care at least provides for medical attention for all. In your wildest fancies, do you think that Uncle Sam would let you off the hook for so much as a mill? Uncle will go after some unwary citizen for a nickel, but would get spanked if he went after Halliburton or GM. Don't forget to buy a HumVee, as my GM bonds are taking gas. What is it about the dunder heads who don't object to paying a tax to an inefficent HMO that tells them when, where and if the alleged insured can get medical attention? 2% overhead at Medicare; 18% (on average) at HMO's. Not bad. Sends their capos off to Florida for vacations. Add to that, that a quack's prescription now is questioned by the HMO's. Adds hours and staff to the quacks expenses and thus to yours. I know that you were out there pounding the pavement when you heard that the pill peddlers were going to get $4 billion for their non-existent efforts with the Medicare Part D fraud and the maybe insurance companys $1 1/2 billion for same. Seems that we pay twice as much for medical care and get half as much care in return than the Japanese do. Who won the war? As for homosexuals parading, that is what liberty and the Bill of Rights is all about. Who is hurt? Why do you fear them so? It's none of your business. But, let us not forget the seditious ACLU that you despise so sanguinely. Aren't they the traitors who defend the right of neo-nazis to spew their bile on the streets? And let us not forget flush rimflour's privacy when popping pills. As for abortion, you are creditable but contradictory. You, certainly, won't be willing to pay the truck. As my Ancient Father once told me: "Stick your head in your own plate". If I haven't managed to supply enough umbrage to any, then I apologize. See all y'all at the submarine races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 obtaining more is a long term goal of the oil conglomerates which own and control the United States. It pains me to even respond to such patent rubbish, but oil companies obviously do not own and control the United States (they don't even own a single railroad in the US, let alone the whole country). If they really did own the US, however, they wouldn't have such a hard time getting the rights to drill in ANWR, off California and Florida, and to build new oil refineries. Obviously they do lobby for these policies, just as many lobby against them, and sometimes they convince legislators and sometimes they don't. BTW, I don't own a piece of the oil industry, but I'm all for their freedom to aggressively seek new sources of oil, and I know I'm not alone in this opinion. You might not like the fact that the oil companies have their supporters, but let's not pretend that their only support comes from their employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Germanicus, Moonlapse, Viggen, P.P.: Send this to Hades. I'm getting on my own nerves and it goes nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rameses the Great Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 You know what, I'm not going to comment on this anymore. I'm a Conservative born and a Conservative dead. I don't care about beeing under fire by some of these people out there. So my views have to reflect your's? Sodom means homosexuality and Gomorrah means burning. If you guys fail to see my stance as beeing a Republican than it is your fault. This is who I am and if you have problems with the Republican party you have problems with me. The Democrats were not exactly angels themselves. That's what we need Martina Lewinsky on a postal stamp. See how quickly you attacked tflex, and how many Democrats are so keen on insulting? We're trying to make a point here and if you don't agree don't go off making fun of somebody. The Republicans I bet are keeping in their emotions while you go off ranting about how great your government is. I don't know why you Democrats hate us so much. You think we are no good rotten people who know nothing. That is fine but the old saying, 'How do you know when a Liberal is lying?' 'They are speeking,' certainly applies here. (Shaking my head) Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Favonius Cornelius Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) obtaining more is a long term goal of the oil conglomerates which own and control the United States. It pains me to even respond to such patent rubbish, but oil companies obviously do not own and control the United States (they don't even own a single railroad in the US, let alone the whole country). If they really did own the US, however, they wouldn't have such a hard time getting the rights to drill in ANWR, off California and Florida, and to build new oil refineries. Obviously they do lobby for these policies, just as many lobby against them, and sometimes they convince legislators and sometimes they don't. BTW, I don't own a piece of the oil industry, but I'm all for their freedom to aggressively seek new sources of oil, and I know I'm not alone in this opinion. You might not like the fact that the oil companies have their supporters, but let's not pretend that their only support comes from their employees. Certainly, there are shades of gray in this. They are not ALL powerful, not even a Caesar in Rome was all powerful, but the last 6 years show in vivid detail their consideable influence. I've known the cost of gas since the early 90s, and from then to 2000 the price of gas raised at most 30-50 cents. In a few years time it has jumped almost $2. That is deliberate price gouging at the cost of the entire nation, and by extention the world. THAT is power. I am firmly convinced that the technology for electric automobiles is existant, and I am firmly convinced it does not get a chance to get out by deliberate suppression. As for their supporters, I am sure they have people in their ring. After all they have quite an extensive spin publicity machine in effect, trying to prove to the world that their CO2 emmisions are good for the earth, and the Northern Passage is their gift to humanity. ermanicus, Moonlapse, Viggen, P.P.:Send this to Hades. I'm getting on my own nerves and it goes nowhere. Aw come on friend! Pretend you are on the senate floor debating the prorogation of Caesar's consulship. Edited July 13, 2006 by Favonius Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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