Viggen Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 "When we carefully examine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricus suavus Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 (edited) "When we carefully examine Edited August 14, 2006 by ricus suavus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochus of Seleucia Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4469 The Sacarii occupying Masada were indeed religious zealots. They were the last surviving band of rebels well after the jewish wars were over. Josephus' text is the only source, and with his reputation we cannot trust it at all. We cannot tell if there was a mass suicide unless we find the archeological evidence, which I am currently researching for the project whose link is above. (Thank you Viggen for this thread!!!!!) Enlisted men in the modern Jewish army used to take oaths atop Masada, but now do not because they realize what the zealots stood for. By all means this was not a heroic tragedy and researchers have pointed out that the word "murder" was normally in place where "suicide" would have been in the texts. Masada is the second mass "suicide" recorded by Josephus and given the fact the Jews looked down upon this form of action, it is safe to say there has been one mass suicide too many, or possibly even two. Josephus and his lofty metaphors may have mislead us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochus of Seleucia Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 And where would they have gotten all the materials to make a large battering tower? The Judean desert had no trees suitable for lumber with the few it did have. The same place they got all their food and water and slaves. I think the image Josephus portrays of soldiers moving up a huge battering ram tower and breaking through to storm like an armored flood into the fortress is based on what he had witnessed at the seige of Jerusalem, not what actually happened at Masada. Well he wasn't there, but he's the only source... so we have yet to know the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 I believe that something like dice were found at Masada which are claimed to be the the deciding factor in who killed whom. A sort of lottery. Sacrifical knives used to kill family and each other were also found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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