Galla Placidia

[Ludovicus]

Galla Placidia grew up in the home of Stilicho and Serena. I recently won the book Stilicho at a giveaway here at UNRV. I'm on vacation away from the still unread book. I know it recounts the early period of her fascinating life. With how much detail i cant say. Search UNRV's lists of recently published biographies. Perhaps someone else in this group can give you more information on the relevance of "Stilicho" to your interest.

Edited July 8, 2011 by Ludovicus

[Viggen]

...and as the author of Stilicho is a forum member he might be answer that himself...

cheers

viggen

[Ludovicus]

Galla Placidia grew up in the home of Stilicho and Serena. I recently won the book Stilicho at a giveaway here at UNRV. I'm on vacation away from the still unread book. I know it recounts the early period of her fascinating life. With how much detail i cant say. Search UNRV's lists of recently published biographies. Perhaps someone else in this group can give you more information on the relevance of "Stilicho" to your interest.

 

 

 

Here's a link to UNVRer Philip Matyszak's review of Stilicho: The Vandal Who Saved Rome:

http://www.unrv.com/...ew/stilicho.php

 

As Viggen reminds me, the author of the book is one of our very own UNRV members, Ian Hughes.

 

[sonic]

Hi all.

 

I must admit that when it comes to Placidia, I dodged the bullet. Thankfully, her story is only an 'aside' in the story of Stilicho. In this period she was too young and had very little influence on events. We know that she grew up in Stilicho's household, but there isn't actually much known about her early years. Concerning the date of her birth, there are a couple of theories.

 

It is possible that she was born 392-3. The date of 388 was proposed by Bury, available here (it's note 68). This is the theory accepted, with reservations, by Martindale (PLRE II, 'Aelia Galla Placidia 4; p.888). Oost, in greater detail, discounts dates between 389 and August 392, because Theodosius was in the West, and Galla is not mentioned in the texts surrounding the visit of Theodosius to Rome. Instead, using the Chronicon Paschale, he gives further credence to the idea that she was born in either late 388 or early 389.

 

Although still theories, these are, to my mind, the strongest, which is why I reference Oost in 'Stilicho'. However, for anybody wanting to learn more about Placidia, Stilicho may not be the best book, as she isn't the focus. I'd suggest getting the new book by Professor Sivan shown earlier on this thread.

 

Hmmm. I think I'd find it interesting to review that ....

Edited July 8, 2011 by sonic

[guy]

I have been trying to find sources on this particular woman and the fact I have seen so little, (when you just brief her story you find astounding she doesn't rival Caesar in popularity), and so I am asking anyone here if they know of any non-fiction soucres? I don' care if they are old articles in like JRS or Historia, but for some reason I cannot find anything for her. Any help would be greatly apprieciated.

 

Here's an outline to a Hollywood script I was working on:

 

 

http://www.unrv.com/...__1#entry101161

 

 

guy also known as gaius

[Auris Arrectibus]

Hi all.

 

I must admit that when it comes to Placidia, I dodged the bullet. Thankfully, her story is only an 'aside' in the story of Stilicho. In this period she was too young and had very little influence on events. We know that she grew up in Stilicho's household, but there isn't actually much known about her early years. Concerning the date of her birth, there are a couple of theories.

 

It is possible that she was born 392-3. The date of 388 was proposed by Bury, available here (it's note 68). This is the theory accepted, with reservations, by Martindale (PLRE II, 'Aelia Galla Placidia 4; p.888). Oost, in greater detail, discounts dates between 389 and August 392, because Theodosius was in the West, and Galla is not mentioned in the texts surrounding the visit of Theodosius to Rome. Instead, using the Chronicon Paschale, he gives further credence to the idea that she was born in either late 388 or early 389.

 

Although still theories, these are, to my mind, the strongest, which is why I reference Oost in 'Stilicho'. However, for anybody wanting to learn more about Placidia, Stilicho may not be the best book, as she isn't the focus. I'd suggest getting the new book by Professor Sivan shown earlier on this thread.

 

Hmmm. I think I'd find it interesting to review that ....

 

Thanks Ian!

 

I already asked Hagith Sivan on this issue. Her new book about Galla Placidia should be published any moment. She replied that Galla's date of birth remains very hypothetical and that she had no answer to my question.

 

Maybe not the early years of Galla Placidia herself was of influence on historical events, but that very period in 387-388, was the marriage she was born from of great importance for the motivation of Theodosius to battle with usurper Maximus instead of recognizing him as an emperor. Recently widowed (385) Theodosius was very enamoured and willing (Zosimus tells us) to the young Galla presented by her mother Justina (or was that war just a political and not a manupulated decision?). So what happened in the first years of their marriage?

 

388

The option of the birthdate of Galla Placidia in 388 could only be so if there wasn't a first born by the name of Gratian (as reported in Historia, 1985). If there was, 388 is not likely, ruling out the possibilty of her being a twin-brother of Gratian. Because of lack of documentation and research by contemporary historians, as Oost mentioned a bit irritated in 1965, I think this also could not be excluded. J.B. Bury must have a reason to ignore Gratian as an historical fact in his History of the late Roman Empire in 1923 using Gibbon's Decline and fall of the Roman Empire from 1776 and Zosimus Historia Nova from ca. 500 AD as sources. Maybe this event was not dug up again by scholars until 1985. By my knowlegde Oost also never mentioned Gratian in his article SOME PROBLEMS IN THE HISTORY OF GALLA PLACIDIA in 1965 nor in his 'Galla Placidia: a biographical essay' in 1968. So I add this son Gratian as a new aspect.

Evenso, because the marriage of Theodosius and Galla was in "early spring" of 387, March/ April that is, Gratian still could be born in the last days of 387 or the first months of 388. Theodosius was 41 by then and Galla 18 max. Then there are a few months for the newly weds and could 388 still be right.

So: the last months of 388.

 

389

If you consider that Theodosius left for a campaign to the West approximately in June or July 388 (fact is that he attended the battle of Sava on July 28th 388), there are even more months for the couple to determine Galla Placidia's birthdate in 389. Justina left Constantinople for Italy in 388 with her children, except Galla. Reason not to travel could be a pregnancy. Or to look after her stepsons Arcadius (10) and Honorius (3)? The first expelled her from the palace during the absence of Theodosius: Galla and a child. Was it Gratian or already Galla Placidia?

So 389 in March at the most is a possibility.

 

392

Theodosius returns to Constantinople in November 391. That makes July 392 the first occasion for her date of birth.

 

393

Because Galla dies at childbirth in 394 from their son John, the latest date could be March 393, calculating 9 months back.

 

Summary possible intervals:

1. End of 388 - March 389

Not likely, because sources like J.B. Bury, Gibbon and Zosimus state that the marriage was at the end of 387 (also Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology, 1849).

If you add up 9 months from Gratians birth, it's simply not possible.

Or Gratian is a lapsus historiae or Galla Placidia was her twin brother or the marriage was in the early spring. On what can we invalidate or verify these thesis?

2. July 392 - March 393.

This makes Galla Placidia 18 years old during the sack of Rome in August 410 by Alarik, being the key-figure for successory in the West for Honorius not able to have offspring.

 

Please comment on this!

 

Jeroen H de Lange,

Amsterdam

Edited July 10, 2011 by Auris Arrectibus

[Auris Arrectibus]

 

 

And about the movie.......I'd like to contribute on that!

 

When do we start?

 

 

Edited July 9, 2011 by Auris Arrectibus

[Mel]

I have been trying to find sources on this particular woman and the fact I have seen so little, (when you just brief her story you find astounding she doesn't rival Caesar in popularity), and so I am asking anyone here if they know of any non-fiction soucres? I don' care if they are old articles in like JRS or Historia, but for some reason I cannot find anything for her. Any help would be greatly apprieciated.

[Mel]

You might contact Faith Justice via Historian's Notebook, http://faithljustice.wordpress.com/

She may be able to give you some additional sources as well. . .good luck with your paper!

[Auris Arrectibus]

You might contact Faith Justice via Historian's Notebook, http://faithljustice.wordpress.com/

She may be able to give you some additional sources as well. . .good luck with your paper!

 

Hi Mel!

 

 

Thanks for the lead.

 

Already asked Faith last February by e-mail:

What's your opinion and argument about the date and place of birth of Galla Placidia?

In your book she's 22 in 410 AD. So born in 388, but some others say it can only be in 392 AD.

 

She responded with enthousiasm for my interest and question, but apologized for being too bizzy to answer and to get back on it in the near future.

Don't want to push it and hope to hear from her soon.

 

In the meantime, maybe there are others who did the same exploring..........

 

Jeroen H de Lange,

Amsterdam

[Auris Arrectibus]

To all,

 

Evidence for the existence of the son named Gratian in the article 'Gratian, a son of Theodosius and the Birth of Galla Placidia', published in Historia Zeitung in 1985 is clarified in the same magazine in the article 'Gratianus Redivius' in 1989.

The author is Stefan Rebenich, professor at the University of Bern (Switzerland).

 

One of the three arguments for a son is based on letter 51 (part 17) from bisshop Ambrose to Theodosius after the circus-massacre in Thessaloniki in 390 AD. The original text you can read here.

In this passage, Ambrose, refers to Theodosius as "the father of Gratian" and futher "enjoy perpetual peace" ..... "with your holy offspring".

This Gratian though is explained in a dutch translation that this refers to emperor Gratian, as a young emperor in relation to an older.

 

17. Shall I not value the father of Gratian more than my very eyes? Your other holy pledges also claim pardon. I conferred beforehand a dear name on those to whom I bore a common love. I follow you with my love, my affection, and my prayers. If you believe me, be guided by me; if, I say, you believe me, acknowledge what I say; if you believe me not, pardon that which I do, in that I set God before you. May you, most august Emperor, with your holy offspring, enjoy perpetual peace with perfect happiness and prosperity.

 

Second argument is the dedicatory inscription at the San Giovanni Evangelista Church which she had build after surviving a storm at the Mediterrenean Sea in 425 AD.

There are three names with the extension "nep": Theodosius, Gratianus and Iohannes. This "nep" could mean nepos (grandson), but not very likely for an inscription by Galla Placidia.

In The Prosopography of the Later Roman Empire J.R. Martindale suggest that is coud be an copy-error and could be "n.p." like "noblissimus puer".

 

Nevertheless, we know that Galla Placidia had a brother Iohannes that died at childbirth and that her own son Theodosius (Germanicus) from her marriage with Athaulfus also died young. So if "nep" indicates relatives that already were dead at that moment, we can assume that Gratianus also is a dead relative.

 

Sanctus Ioa[nn]es evangelista // amore Christi nobilis / et filius tonitrui / Sanctus Iohannes arcana vidit / Gallla Placidia Augusta / pro se et his omnibus / hoc votum solvit // D Constantinus / d Theodosius / d Arcadius / d Honorius / Theodosius nep // d Valentinianus / d Gratianus / d Constantinus / Gratianus nep / Ioannes nep // D(ominus) n(oster) Theodosius / d(omina) n(ostra) Eudocia // d(ominus) n(oster) Arcadius / d(omina) n(ostra) Eudoxia Aug(usta) // Sancto ac beatissimo / apostolo Iohanni evangelistae / Galla Placidia Augustus / cum filio suo / Placido Valentiniano Augusto / et filia sua / Iusta Grata Honoria Augusta / liberationis periculum maris / votum solvent // Beati misericordes quoniam miserebitur deus // Confirma hoc deus / quod operatus es in nobis / a te<m=N>plo tuo Ierusalem / tibi offerent reges munera

 

The third argument I don't know, for the articles by Stefan Rebenich are not in full extent available on the net.

Maybe I can contact him for comment on this issue.

 

Jeroen H de Lange,

Amsterdam

[Artimi]

added Hagith Sivan's book to my wish list... but the paperback.... the hardcover is just a wee bit above my price range - 95.96 CAD

[Artimi]

and while clicking on links etc, I just added another book about Hypatia and this book by Faith Justice -

Selene of Alexandria