Boudicca

[Pertinax]

Only in the Sun "Newspaper"

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006240149,00.html

Edited May 25, 2006 by Pertinax

[docoflove1974]

Only in the Sun "Newspaper"

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006240149,00.html

 

I don't know what you all think, but the portrait of McBurgercea is a knock-out

[Primus Pilus]

Quote from the story:

 

Her struggle was memorably recorded in The Sun

[Pertinax]

"Battling Boudicca Bashes Latin Louts" -this gives you a very good idea of what "Hold Ye Fronte Page " was like

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0...9931322-1950335

 

here it is-dont say you wernt warned.

[Viggen]

Only in the Sun "Newspaper"

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006240149,00.html

 

hehe, also in the BBC

[Romulus Sicanus]

The British goe through their stages,every once in while they will claim ancestry or take what they want from the Romans,the Celts,the Saxons, the Normans ect...makes me laugh.

 

These days its fashionable to hate Imperialism and Fascism and things of that aspect,especially after WW2..so they build personality cults around these so-called ethnic/folk heroes representing "Freedom and Liberty" trying o forget about their own Colonial and Imperial and far from laudable past...

 

Of coarse Freedom and Liberty are thing found only in the "Roman Virtues".

 

 

But Boudicca is interesting,she killed more Britons than Romans!

Edited May 26, 2006 by Romulus Sicanus

[Primus Pilus]

The British goe through their stages,every once in while they will claim ancestry or take what they want from the Romans,the Celts,the Saxons, the Normans ect...makes me laugh.

 

Well umm, it is British heritage since all those people make up what is modern Britain. If the British claimed only to be Anglo-Saxon that would also be wrong, no?

 

But Boudicca is interesting,she killed more Britons than Romans!

 

Frankly we have no way to know that. I suppose that if we assume that she killed every non Roman in her path it may have added up to more than the Roman citizens at Camolodunum, Londinium and Verulamium, as well as the detachment of Legio IX Hispana that was overwhelmed near Londinium. Unfortunately the sources don't give all the details. Unless you are trying to imply that she was responsible for the death of her army by revolting in the first place, then I suppose you would be right.

[Pertinax]

It could be suggested that she killed /had caused to be killed anyone who was romanised as well as Roman in the urban areas attacked. as the essence of the attack was the destruction of specific roman institutions and the Urban apparatus of acculturation. The great irony being that the Icenii were ,like the Brigantes a client kingdom and ally , mortally insulted by the program of forced de-militarisation which swept them into the net with previously rebellious tribes (and former tribal rivals and enemies).I would of course add that the question of exploitative government has not slipped my notice.

Her army was indeed obliterated and given its numerical advantadge this doesnt suggest a high level of generalship, the Ordivices and Brigantes caused much greater grief with fear fewer combatants.Some suggest that Roman propoganda selected Boudicca as a useful "Brittanic" emblem to show the nature of the threat from the Island, in contrast to the orderly "unfeminine" Roman response. Its not to be doubted that a Queen would be followed by the hitherto constantly fragmenting/redefining tribes , but as has been said elsewhere until the Romans imposed an idea of nationhood on Britain tribal alliances were more a matter of a cult of personality , sometimes for the life of one monarch.

Edited May 26, 2006 by Pertinax

[Romulus Sicanus]

No theirs nothing wrong with heritage obviously,didn't mean to come across like that,but more what I was referring to is that it creates a certain political ethnic cattiness,which is interchangeable depending the mood at whatever certain time...I just dont care for that kinda thing myself.

 

 

Boudica was an opportunist ,she saw the fruits of Roman Civilization and thought she could own and lay claim to them her self. The tribes of Britain where never unified,they frequently slaughtered themselves on a daily basis before Rome's arrival. Both her and her husband were Friends & Allies of Rome in fact before she turned on them. I think she also used this as move against her tribal enemies and settle old scores.

 

Her rampage through Roman Britain killed more Britons than Romans,I read of the atrocities committed against the Briton civilians especially what she had done to the women of the villages and cities..anyway she was defeated once first rate and front line Roman legions where moved into battle with a real Military Commander to put down this hostile uprising...and Roman Britain prospered long after she was dead.

Edited May 26, 2006 by Romulus Sicanus

[Primus Pilus]

Her rampage through Roman Britain killed more Britons than Romans,I read of the atrocities committed against the Briton civilians especially what she had done to the women of the villages and cities..anyway she was defeated once first rate and front line Roman legions where moved into battle with a real Military Commander to put down this hostile uprising...and Roman Britain prospered long after she was dead.

 

Agreed, but for all intensive purposes these were Romans, Romanized Celts or conformists. In her mind these people were probably not Iceni or Britons at all for that matter. I suppose this can be chalked up as another one of those semantic disagreements.

[Pertinax]

Quislings is the word I think-or the word she thought.

[phil25]

I doubt she thought "Quisling" precisely, Pertinax - even in celtic. The word was not coined until around 1940!! But i take your point.

 

It used to be claimed Boudicca was buried under Platform 8 of King's Cross station (roughly where Harry Potter chatches the Hogwarts' express!!) though on what basis I was never clear.

 

As for the british Empire - I for one am not ashamed of it, its story, legacy or those who gained and maintained it. It was a US newspaper that once hailed it as "the greatest force for good the world has ever known". Happy to debate that in another thread if anyone feels strongly.

 

Phil

[Pertinax]

AS im not sure what tounge Boudicca thought in that was the best I could do!

[phil25]

Perhaps - given that we now know from the Vindolanda tablets that the Roman had a word akin to "wogs" to refer to the Britons (Britunnculi??) - maybe they had a word meaning what Quisling does to us.

 

A "Cogidubnus" anyone?

 

Phil

[Pertinax]

I think the context of the Brittunculi insult is actually related to native irregulars /auxilliae in weapon training : though the "wog" diminutive insult would be easily applicable to any passing tribesman.I dont suppose the Tribes , at that time considered themselves to be "British" in any way ,save only as being (in some cases) anti-Roman, so they might not have got the insult. However I think this is too fine a semantic nicety to work out-unless AD can give us a logical suggestion?

Edited May 27, 2006 by Pertinax