The Imperial Beards

[Tobias]

Augustus, Tiberius, Claudius, Vespasian, Titus, and Trajan were all emperors who spent time with the legions and are consistently shown as clean-shaven on their statuary and coinage - except for occasional periods of mourning (something different).

 

If you were an Emperor, would you get statues of coinage done of yourself with you not looking your best? Just because an Emperor isn't wearing a beard on coinage or on statues is no proof whatsoever that they didn't acquire beards when on campaign etc.

 

You will also observe sir, that i added the qualification " 'might' retain his beard".

 

One must keep an open mind with history, and listen to the opinions of others

Edited May 7, 2006 by Tobias

[phil25]

Surely debate is exactly that - listening and seeking to understand the views of others by questioning, challenging, reflecting back...? I don't know why you should suggest that I lack an open mind. Anyone is free to challenge or question anything I say - that's when a site like this comes alive.

 

As for history, I am of the firm belief that there is no one final answer to anything - views and perceptions change with time. Any historical interpretation is only as good as the evidence and argument that supports it. That is what i am seeking to explore in this dialogue.

 

If you have read any of my other threads on this board you'll also find that most are based on questioning orthodoxy and keeping an open mind.

 

And why do you call me "sir" - is it meant to be ironic? Phil will do, thanks.

 

Returning to the topic at hand, sure imperial iconography was not "truthful" see the eternally youthful image of Augustus. But it did seek to promote a clear image across the empire. So Hadrian being depicted with a beard was probably reflecting that he was, physically different from his predecessors, but also promoting the fact that that was how he wished to be thought of consistently.

 

I don't think we need discuss whether men occasionally went unshaven for a few days - I doubt anyone ever had the sort of close shave we can attain now, anyway. Trajan may have had permanent five o'clock shadow for all I know. I don't see that as relevant to his imagery, which is consistently clean shaven.

 

Octavian, I think, had some coins done showing him unshaven as a sign of mourning - THAT, is a case of where something real may have affected the iconography. A point was being made.

 

But (in my humble opinion) we cannot base arguments on what "might" have been.

 

Phil

[Tobias]

I don't know why you should suggest that I lack an open mind.

 

I named no-one; it was merely a general observation.

 

And why do you call me "sir" - is it meant to be ironic?

 

Those i don't know as well on the site i give the respect i think their due; there's no irony about it, i was merely respectful.

 

My opinion was never meant to suggest a complete solution as to why the later Emperors wore beards; and by dismissing Emperors and their wartime beards, you have missed my point; I thought that perhaps the later Emperors seized upon it as symbol of a strong militant attitude; of being devoted to the state in times of trouble so far as to perhaps neglect personal physical features such as beards.

 

we cannot base arguments on what "might" have been

 

You make a valid point; however, historical discussion wouldn't be as interesting without some theories

Edited May 7, 2006 by Tobias

[Divi Filius]

Btw guys, I would like to point out. Hadrian was the first emperor to bear a beard in his bust, but he wasnt the first to have one in person. Plutarch describes Marcus Antonius as having worn an elagant beard. So we have to be careful when we use busts exclusively as determiners for the looks of the roman aristocracy. The taboo of beard may have continued in that level until Hadrian, but it is very very likely it was something that emerged popular during the later days of the Roman republic, especially as Greek culture pearced.

[AEGYPTUS]

I meant that during earlier times, (mid and late republic so on) beards were, IIRC, considered to be a bad thing, but later they were, acording to my presumption, connected to wisom and philosphy.

 

I have a quick question for anyone who can answer it. In earlier times Barbarian came from the Greek word for someone who wears a beard or something along those lines. So how did its meaning go from Barbarian to being assosiated with Philosphy and wisdom? Just interested!!

Edited June 5, 2006 by AEGYPTUS

[Pantagathus]

I have a quick question for anyone who can answer it. In earlier times Barbarian came from the Greek word for someone who wears a beard or something along those lines. So how did its meaning go from Barbarian to being assosiated with Philosphy and wisdom? Just interested!!

 

No barbaros meant simply non-greek or foreign, most specifically in regards to language. Early on it was typically associated with Medes, Scythians & Persians, long before they knew the people that we think of as being 'Barbarians' (Gauls & Germans).

 

Regardless, Gauls mostly wore mustashes if they wore facial hair at all...

[PerfectimusPrime]

Regardless, Gauls mostly wore mustashes if they wore facial hair at all...

 

 

I think we should avoid generalizations like that. Gauls were a rather diverse people, with many tribes.

[Pertinax]

Carcopino in "Daily Life in Ancient Rome" offers the theory that the beard as a fashion item were, if not "invented" as a social elegance by Hadrian was a useful camouflage for an old scar, furthermore that (as Carcopino posits) shaving was carried out by a third party using water alone -an ordinary man or soldier would find such a fashion a comfort. I would be interested to know if anyone has sources quoting use of oil or any soaps for grooming the beard.Even slaves did not , apparently, shave themselves if belonging to a reasonably prosperous household.

[Pantagathus]

Regardless, Gauls mostly wore mustashes if they wore facial hair at all...

 

 

I think we should avoid generalizations like that. Gauls were a rather diverse people, with many tribes.

 

I don't, I'm just paraphrasing eminant scholars on the subject of the Celts... They had many tribes yes, but were quite homogeneous from a cultural perspective.

[Pertinax]

Here is a charming piece from the "druidschool " site, as regards the growing of mustachios in accordance with social standing in Celtic society.Not perhaps the epitome of scholarship but a pleasing romantic conceit...

 

https://www.storesonline.com/site/1030100/page/509179

[Pantagathus]

I know this is quite a bit earlier than the Byzantine period but I thought it was an interesting tidbit for the discussion:

 

"The next point upon which all nations appear to have agreed, was the employment of barbers. The Romans, however, were more tardy in the adoption of their services. According to Varro, they were introduced into Italy from Sicily, in the year of Rome 454, having been brought over by P. Titinius Mena: before which time the Romans did not cut the hair. The younger Africanus (son of Paulus

[Philhellene]

At least Justin II and Tiberius Constantine weren`t bearded and you don`t know, but old Justinian`s mosaic pictures are bearded. See this one for example:

 

Edited July 10, 2006 by Philhellene